Exclusive
By Raïssa Robles
UPDATE – At 6:10 P.M. today, August 6, 2012
The House of Representatives made history by approving floor deliberations on the Reproductive Health Bill. This means the next step is the insertion of amendments.
The President will certify the bill as urgent which means its passage for Third Reading will be speeded up in the House. Upon learning this, Fr. Melvin Castro of the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines said: “God have mercy on him and on us.”
By getting the House of Representatives to take the crucial vote on the RH Bill today instead of tomorrow, the presidential palace has apparently outmaneuvered the Catholic Church and other foes of the Reproductive Health (RH) law.
The anti-RH bloc was gearing up for a showdown tomorrow. Not today when classes at all levels in the National Capital Region were suspended due to flooding and stormy weather. Caught flatfooted, they’re unable to muster and deploy their usual hakot, mostly consisting of students (some of them unwilling) from Catholic schools ferried by bus.
I actually didn’t expect such a neat stroke during such foul weather.
But I guess the pro-RH advocates felt time was of the essence. They did not want more of the bill’s “sponsors” to back out due to pressure from the Church and its supporters. From what I’ve heard in the past days, the margin of votes for sending the RH Bill to the House floor for deliberations had gone down to a bare handful — just enough to fill an SUV. This meant the Church only had to pressure just a few more congressmen to fulfill its aim of blocking the measure.
The question now is, did the Church and anti-RH people have time to convince this number of lawmakers between lunch today and this afternoon?
Lunch was on the house
Because while the rest of the country ate lunch today, President Benigno Aquino and his congressional allies were busy putting the final touches to the controversial measure. Aquino met with 160 lawmakers and lunch was on him – rather, on us taxpayers.
The lunch drew 160 congressmen or 56% of the 285-member body. A very slim majority, yes, but enough to get the bill to the floor for deliberations and amendments and approved on second reading.
I’m sure the question uppermost in many people’s minds is – what did the President promise his lunch guests? And did they emerge from the Palace with doggie bags, which was what used to happen during the administration of former President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo?
I’m pretty sure no one inside the Palace was as crass as some aides of the previous president who had placed cash in brown paper bags (well, at least they were environmentally correct).
But I’m also sure there were lawmakers who reminded Budget Secretary Butch Abad about the release of their pork barrel and their sponsored public works projects.
UPDATE as of 5:16 PM, August 6, 2012 – what happened in PNoy’s luncheon with the House members:
Sources told me that PNoy took the high road in his discussions with the lawmakers. He uttered not a word of criticism against the bishops who had slammed him Saturday. All he said was that lawmakers had to think of what was good for the country’s future, vote according to their conscience and not according to their fears.
I guess the last one also meant they should not let the bishops scare them into a “No” vote.
As I write this, the House leadership is set to deliver the final masterstroke by merely conducting a viva voce vote. This means, Church leaders would not know who to direct their anger at. Except the senior House leaders, of course.
While pork barrel has been criticized a lot, it is part of the horse-trading in a democracy. The problem that still needs to be addressed with pork barrel, though, is the aspect of accountability and transparency. The public has to be able to trace where the pork goes and that is what is not very clear till today.
“Don’t burn the House to roast a pig”
Hmmm. It’s interesting that Fr. Joaquin Bernas’ column advising his fellow churchmen – “Don’t burn the house to roast a pig” – appeared before Aquino’s lunch with the lawmakers. Could Bernas have been presciently referring to the House of Representatives getting their pork barrel in exchange for approving the RH Bill?
I think the Church officialdom made a tactical mistake last Saturday when they threatened to campaign against lawmakers who would vote for RH. They also crossed the line separating the Church and the State when they did that.
For this reason, the next congressional elections will be very very interesting to watch. How many pro-RH congressmen will lose in the polls?
Pangasinan, especially, will be a test case for the power of the Catholic Church over the hearts and minds and conscience of voters. Vote-rich Pangasinan is the bishopric of Monsignor Socrates Villegas who equated Contraception with Corruption. It is also at the same time a bailiwick of the Cojuangcos where Congresswoman Kimi Cojuangco, one of the most vocal advocates of the pro-RH Law, is running for a second term.
I think Fr. Bernas tried to warn his colleagues not to bring the issue to a head and not to lay the reputation of the Church on the line on this matter.
It’s too late now. We might see the country reaping the consequences of these moves in the years to come.
Mel says
Mel says
As at 02 Sept. 2012, proposed amendments will be means tested thru the DSWD, for ‘poorest of the poor’.
Mel says
Mel says
THE LATEST on RH Bill 4244 Amendments.
raqs says
can the bishops face the children on the street and say “THAT IS YOUR RIGHT TO LIFE!”
Let the people decide for themselves, make their choices… hindi lahat ay kayamg magpigil, at hindi sa lahat ng pagkakataon ay kayang magpigil ng marunong magpigil. Lets face it! Sino ba ang may malaki ang bilang ng pamilya? ang mga pamilyang walang sapat na kaalaman sa pagpaplano ng pamilya. iba ang kakayanang mag isip ni Juan kay Father at kay sir… getz?
andrew lim says
EAT BULAGA LYRICS (adjusted to the times)
Mula Aparri Hanggang Jolo
Saan ka man ay marami tayo
Isang kahig isang tuka
Buong bansa… Eat Bulaga
Sina Mitos, Glo at Johnny
Kasama pati si Manny
Silang lahat ay nagbibigay
Perwisyo sa ating buhay
Buong bansa ay nagkakaisa
Sa RH bill na ating dala
Isang libo’t isang tuwa
Buong bansa… Eat Bulaga!
Sing it! It fits!
pinay710 says
@sir andrew lim, hindi po puede yan. mag walk out si tito sotto. hindi na kompleto ang eat bulaga.
fidol says
Let us remember that marcos regime a very tough president.applied this contraceptives to most of the poor and urban places..is the economy grows did marcos controlled the population boom? yes it is not the gvt. spent lots of money..distributing the pills and supot with iud and vasectomy..but nothing is coming to take home the item those who took home the item give it to their children to make lobo. and the pills rotten in the cabinet..so what is the changes…marcos change his strategy..by using the family planning center as a guidance for using the calendar and possible widrawal training program..and the church agreed to teach the couple to be a responsible parents with a paper that they are already have a seminar in the family planning center.a documents needed to registered for marrying..when marcos fled to hawai this kind of rules forgotten..this is only my opinion.. what is good for our country is good for me and to every citizen of this country..hope they are rigth to pass this RH bill..
Ivan says
Here’s Sen. Sotto’s moment…Hindi ko alam kung matatawa ako or hindi…ala Charo Santos ang dating…
can’t wait for Sen MDS’ reaction..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR3hdVQSMWo&feature=youtu.be
mushupork says
nakakatawa yung acting pero nakakaiyak isipin na ganitong klaseng tao ang gumagawa ng batas para sa buong Pilipinas.
priscila sereno -reyes says
hindi ko tinapos ang vedeo kasi nabasa ko na sa news ,sana ipinakita rin sa vedeo iyong mga bata namumulot ng basura sa smoky mountain,iyong mag asawa na may 6 na anak nanakatira sa kariton ,iyong mga bata sa bahay amponan na iniwan ng mga magulang dahil walang maipakain,iyong mga magulang na nag bebenta ng ng organ para sa marami niyang anak,mga magulang na nag papakatulong sa mga arabo kahit ituring silang alipin,at marami pang iba.nasabi ko ito kasi sa vedeo ni tito sotto ay iyong maganda lang.
nabasa ko rin sa mga comments sa ABS_CBNNEWS na may anak siya sa isang sex symbol at may affair kay pepsi paloma (not sure sa name).sana di na lang mag salita si tito sotto dahil nabubuksan ang kanyang nakaraan,at di niya dapat sisihin ang RH bill sa pag kamatay ng anak niya,dahil kung tama ang pag gamit ng contraceptive(pills) ng asawa niya di siya mabubuntis,siguro huminto si helen ng pag inom ng pills ng mabalitaan na may babae siya or noong buntis si helen ay may babae siya kaya na apektohan ang bata sa tiyan (hinala kolang ito).si helen sana ang tinanong niya kung bakit siya na buntis at ano ang ginawa niya noong nag bubutis siya .
ganito lang ba ang masasabi ng isang senador ng Pilipinas tungkol sa kinabukasan ng ating bayan? parang walang ibig sabihin.sana huwag na lang idamay ang buong bayan sa personal niyang buhay .
vander anievas says
wow,
pang-eat bulaga talaga…
AngLagay says
What can we expect to a “COMEDIAN” anyway. Kailan pa kaya magigising at matutong magsiboto tayong mga Pilipino? Bakit ganitong mga klase ng politiko ang inilalagay natin sa mataas na katungkulan? Mga ka-tribo at kadugo ni Bong Revilla, Jinggoy, Lapid at Pacman. Puro mga pang chairman ng “SILENT COMMITTEE” Dapat sa mga ito ay pang mayor lang ng isang maliit na munincipality or baranggay chairman at baranggay tanod.
duquemarino says
@CPMers
With the permission of Raissa, I hope this information could help us laymen appreciate or understand how a bill is theoretically and actually becomes a law. this was prepared by the Philippine Human Rights Information Center (Philrights). Sort of Legislation 101.
HOW A BILL THEORETICALLY BECOMES A LAW
(Prepared by the Philippine Human Rights Information Center (PhilRights)
1. A congressman or senator thinks of a proposed. Congressional staff does policy studies and drafts the bill.
2. The proponent lawmaker files the bill in their own chamber’s Bills and Index division, indexed, abstracted and reproduced then informs the Committee on rules of the chamber where the bill is filed so it can be calendared for first reading.
3. The number, title and author of the bill are read before the plenary session and the bill is referred for consideration to the appropriate committee.
4. The committee where the bill is referred to conducts public hearings, solicits position papers from concerned sectors and gets the opinions of experts on the matter. The committee studies the ramifications of the proposed law and based on the committee study, the bill is either approved without amendments, is amended, substituted with another bill or consolidated with other similar bills, then a committee report is submitted to the Committee on Rules. A committee should act upon the bill within 30 session days after referral. It may be discharged from considering the bill if it had not acted on it after the prescribed period.
5. The rules committee assigns the number of the committee report and calendars it for second reading.
6. The bill is deliberated upon in a plenary session. After reading the number of the committee report, the title and the proponent committee, the principal author of the bill delivers a sponsorship speech. If the bill was consolidated with other bills or was substituted with another, the chairman of the committee where it was referred to becomes the principal proponent of the bill and delivers the sponsorship speech.
The sponsorship speech is followed by a period of interpellation where any member of the chamber can ask questions pertaining to the merits and demerits of the proposed legislation. After the interpellation, oppositors deliver “turno en contra” speeches to convince other members to reject the bill. Next comes the rebuttal by the sponsors of the points raised be the oppositors.
A period of amendments follows after the debate. The sponsoring committee first proposes its amendments to the bill, which should be passed by a majority vote of the members. Amendments by individual lawmakers are then proposed, which are also to be passed by a majority vote.
After the amendments are entered, approval of the bill is done through a roll call vote where each lawmaker is called to openly register his or her vote. They are also given time to explain their vote, if they so wish.
7. The bill is then printed, including the amendments approved on second reading, and is distributed to all members of the chamber at least three days before the final reading. In the plenary, the final version of the bill is approved through a roll call vote. No amendments are allowed at this point.
8. A copy of the approved bill is printed and passed on to the other chamber where it undergoes the same process of deliberation and approval, from first to third reading. If the other chamber has no amendments to the bill, it is sent to the Office of the President for signing into law.
9. A bicameral conference committee is formed when there are amendments to the bill made by the other chamber and the proponent chamber does not agree to the amendments. It is made up of representatives from the House and Senate, in equal numbers. The conference committee works out a compromise version of the bill. The compromise version is printed and sent to each chamber for final approval.
10. The President of the Philippines signs the final version into law, and it becomes a Republic Act, assigned a Republic Act number.
The president, however, can veto the bill approved by congress. In this case, he sends it back with a message on why he vetoed the bill. Congress can override the veto by a vote of two-thirds of all members, with each House voting separately.
The law takes effect 15 days after its publication either in the official Gazette or in a newspaper of general circulation.
duquemarino says
@CPMers
Part two of Legislation 101.
HOW A BILL ACTUALLY BECOMES A LAW
(Prepared by the Philippine Human Rights Information Center (PhilRights)
1. A congressman or senator thinks of a proposed law. Congressional staff does policy studies and drafts the bill. In many instances, however, the bills are thought of, and sometimes drafted, by Malacanang itself. The Executive requests a legislator to sponsor it, providing him or her the needed research and other technical backup.
Many bills are also thought of by interest groups, including big businesses and political partisans. In these cases, the groups look for lawmakers who are will to sponsor their legislative proposals. These groups either drat the bills themselves or closely collaborated with the legislators in crafting them.
2. The proponent lawmaker tries to influence the committee on rules of the chamber where the bill is filed on what committee he or she wants the proposed measure to be referred to.
3. The number, title and author of the bill are read before the plenary session (House or Senate) and the bill is referred for consideration to the appropriate committee.
4. Legislative committees have life-and-death power over bills. If the committee decides to sit on a proposed law, it will never reach the floor again. Majority of the bills are never discussed in the committee, they are dead right after the first reading. The 30-day rule was rarely used (in the Ninth Congress).
Lack of material time is not the only reason why most bills are not acted upon by the committees. Some of the bills are deliberately suppressed.
Lobbying by interest groups for or against a proposed measure starts at the committee. Representatives of business, political and sectoral groups as well as Malacanang and other executive agencies try to influence committee members into fashioning the bill to favor their specific interests.
Deals are often made at this stage. There is no documentary evidence to prove it, but at this point some interest groups offer, and some legislators allegedly accept monetary and other rewards for favors done.
5. Here, the Committee of Rules now holds life-and-death power over the bill. If it refuses to calendar it for second reading, the proposed measure can never be debated upon on the floor. Interest groups put pressure on the rules committee. Deals are also made at this point.
6. Lobbying by interest groups intensifies, focused not only on committee members but on all legislators. It is said that at this stage, rewards are raised if debate on the bill is expected to be intense, and defending or amending it on the floor requires extra effort on the part of the legislator.
7. The approval of the final version is usually a formality. The rule that the bill should be printed and distributed to all members at least three days before the final reading is often violated.
8. Here, the other chamber now exercises life-and –death power over the proposed measure. Most bills ‘die’ when transmitted to the other chamber for consideration.
9. Wheeling and dealing among senators, congressmen, Malacanang and the lobby groups take place as the conference committee works out a compromise version of the bill.
10. The President of the Philippines signs the final version into law. For measures the President likes to veto but is restrained from doing so by whatever reasons, the executive department can still prevent implementation of the law by refusing to issue the necessary implementing rules and regulations.
duquemarino says
@CPMers
At the rate it is going, the proposed RH measure i still in for rough sailing. And this should not stop us from getting our voices heard (PRO or ANTI RH bill). In a democracy all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives.
Respect for the opinion of others is politeness. If we are not convinced by their position we can learn to agree to disagree, and respect the other’s opinion even if we don’t share it.
I am Pro RH but I do respect the opinions of those on the other side of the issue.
duquemarino says
@CPMers
Battle over RH bill shifts to Senate
http://www.rappler.com/nation/10393-battle-over-rh-bill-shifts-senate
Today, August 13, Senate Majority Leader Vicente “Tito” Sotto III will avail himself of a rarity in the legislative process as part of his crusade against Senate Bill 2865 or the Reproductive Health Act of 2011. Sotto will deliver a so-called “turno en contra” speech that he bills as an exposé.
Mel says
great one! thanks for sharing… it’s a good guide
something to think and ponder on.
Victin Luz says
@Mel…….kumusta are you still in CANADA? Nakapoy ak ti grammar and composition kabayan Ngem saan nak mga maylako kabsat…. Oray agsurat o agsao da iti GERMAN LANGUAGE , I’ll just go to the Internet and find and learn it’s meaning ……datoy akenkukwa ng argumento ditoy ngato ta, aglanglangsot laeng. Kayat na kano daytoy RH BILL ngem no adalem no apay nga tattalaeng nga nangted ti ammo na, isuna ket ANTI.
Adda salsaludsuded kenwana ngem saan na kayat nga sungbatan . Kabayan, bakbakan kuna tapno mabainan kayat mo.
Victin Luz says
@duquemarino….thanks for posting the procedure of a bill in becoming a law. It will be a great help for us non lawyers to understand all the steps than google to an internet finding, reading and understanding all about the process. Thanks. Are you a lawyer sir? Just curios ,Ty.
duquemarino says
@Victin Luz
I am a non-lawyer, just a community development worker who have seen and felt life in the grassroots.
Victin Luz says
A good when did you last visit our our heated exchanges of views ha ha tama ka uminit ng husto friend.
duquemarino says
@Victin Luz
I visit Raissa’s blogsite as often as I could and make sure that I read all the threads.
Ok lang kahit nagiging mainit ang palitan ng kuro-kuro, it is a healthy exercise of the democratic process. Anybody who feels he can passionately express and defend what he is advocating for should be heard but at the end of the day we have to listen to reason (be persuaded peaceably). Bowing down to the majority decision doesn’t make us less human.
That’s Cyber Plaza Miranda spirit!!!!!!!!!1
Victin Luz says
Copy sir and thanks again
Victin Luz says
We are proud of having a just community development worker like you@duquemarino …..with your life experience with the grass roots, your values of being HONEST/ SRAIGHTFORWARDNESS can not be measured by anybody else on these blog.
In your stay with the grass roots ,it must be your conclusion ( so do I ) that RH BILL is still on a rough sailing and since you are a PRO as you stated here,……may we suggest that you help us defendi our opinion/comments against the ANTI….but of course by respecting their opinion and explaining to them the TRUTH why their opinion/s are wrong. Can you do that for us please. Thanks @ duquemarino.
duquemarino says
@Victin Luz
When I said that the proposed RH measure i still in for rough sailing, I meant rough sailing in Congress (both the House and the Senate).
If I remember right there was a survey conducted that 87% (?) of our population favors the RH Bill. This was emphasized by Congressman Biazon on August 6, 2012 during the termination of the debate. Senator Franklin Drilon said the Senate terminated its plenary debates when it adjourned in May but Senator Sotto delivered his “turno en contra” speech last August 13 to be followed by a second part.
To me, this is Senator Sotto’s was of ‘filibustering” (the use of obstructionist tactics, especially prolonged speechmaking, for the purpose of delaying legislative action) to gain public attention while the period of amendments is going on at the House.
This is how I mean that the RH Bill is is till in for rough sailing.
The Primer on Reproductive Health published by the University of the Philippines (2011) will greatly help us understand and advocate the passing of the RH Bill. simply google “Legal Primer on Reproductive Health – University of the Philippines” and download the primer.
duquemarino says
@Victin Luz
Correction lang – Third paragraph, first line of my reply to you should read “To me, this is Senator Sotto’s way (not was) of ‘filibustering”
andrew lim says
ON THOSE CHURCH MILITANTS OR RATHER, CHURCH BELLIGERENTS
I was away for much of the weekend, and after I came back to browse, I see that those two militants, @jcc and @jeremiah cheguevara are still at it. They have livened up the discussions, but I also see that it has degenerated also into insults and nonsensical stuff.
My observations:
1. The RH bill has brought to the fore individuals like jcc and jeremiah cheguevara, inspired to “fight the good fight” as per Catholic doctrine. Another one is dboncan, who has his own blog. Why don’t you write your own and espouse your views there, jcc and jeremiah?
2. There are so few Catholics who study their faith as deeply as these militants, so these church militants are playing catch-up. So in their desperation, they use any method available to promote their cause. Which brings me to the most important point:
3. While they may have won an argument or two in these long winded debates, how many hearts do you think have they won to their side? Zero. In their passion to defend the faith, in metaphorical terms they have “managed to impale themselves with the sword they are wielding” .
In short, they prize principles over persons. Jcc and Jeremiah, remember, the goal is not just to prove your point or to prove yourselves correct. You must be able to convince the minds and hearts of your opponents. You are succumbing to the temptation of winning arguments rather than hearts!
When you put forth some of your arguments, I imagine you guys smashing the monstrance (the sun-like vessel used to house the Eucharist) over the heads of your opponents!
Where is the charity? Where is the joyful warrior? All we see is the church belligerent.
raissa says
Hmmmm.
You have a point, Andrew.
andrew lim says
Just to clarify, my post was directed to the two militants, not CPMers. Which is why I used a lot of Catholic language and themes. But if CPMers pick up something from it, then that’s a bonus. :)
Maria says
Thank you for the people who are pro RH. Alam nyo po ngayon ko lang nalaman na may RH bill pala. Parang nuon kasi hindi masyadong matunog ang RH bill. Nagulat ako 16 years na pala ito isinusulong! Ngayon na ang panahon na maipasa ito.
5 years ako nag duty ako bilang nurse sa Fabella hospital. Nakita ko kung gano kahirap ang dinaranas ng mga babae dun. :( Sa mga anti rh, itabi nyo muna ang google, mga research nyo mula sa kung saan saan, tingnan nyo po ang kalagayan ng mga tao. Bumisita po kayo sa mga barangay lying in or sa public maternity hospitals gaya ng Fabella. Buksan nyo ang mga mata at isip nyo.
KAILANGAN NA NATIN NG RH BILL.
Cha says
Hi Maria,
Meron ako napanood na documentary tungkol sa Fabella. Apat o limang babae yata kasama yung mga bagong silang nilang mga sanggol sa iisang kama. Nakakapanlumo talaga.
Mga ilang panganganak (delivery) ang nasasamahan mo noong nandon ka sa loob ng isng araw?
Maria says
Hello Mam. Siguro may mga 80 – 90 live births a day. Dati pa yun. Hindi ko lang alam ngayon kung ganoon pa din. Napakadami talaga nanganganak. May mga minor de edad din. Grabe din ang cases sa brgy lying ins. Sa dami ng nanganganak sa isang araw, yung gloves eh pinapalinis sa mga nursing students na nagduduty para ma-sterilize at ma-recycle ulit. Yung mga asawang lalaki na lang ang pinaglalampaso ng sahig na napgduguan ng asawa nila. Marami pang mga nangyayari sa public setting na hindi ko na maiisa-isa pa dito. Nakakalungkot talaga. Kaya masama ang luob ko na nakakabasa ako dito ng mga taong ang gagaling mag-Ingles at makipagtalastasan na anti-RH pero di nila alam yung totoong nangyayari. Sinusunod nila ang sabi ng mga religious leaders nila pero sana bago sila magcomment na ayaw nila ng RH magvolunteer sila sa public maternity hospitals at lying in. Para makita nila kung paano nahihirapan ang napakadaming kababaihan. Wala akong google research o mga studies na pwedeng i-present pero alam ko na bisitahin lang nila yung mga lugar na nabanggit ako, mamumulat sila. Umaasa ako na maipasa na ang RH bill sa lalong madaling panahon ng matulungan ang mga napakaraming kababaihan na nangangailangan ng reproductive health assistance.
Cha says
Eh mas grabe pa pala sa akala ko. Salamat Maria sa pagbahagi mo ng karanasan mo. Naging mas makatotohanan yung pinag-uusapang problemang ito.
Kung ok lang sana, may isa pa akong tanong, kamusta naman ang mortality rate? Both for mother and child? Ok lang kung ayaw mo ito sagutin, maintindihan ko, baka hindi mo gutuhing pag-usapan. Pasensiya ka na ha, curious lang ako. Thank you so much.
maddog says
and the food that the poor eats.
some get them from dump sites.
will the hale and hearty monsignor villegas be willing to trade places with them?
leona says
Fabella Hospital is a gov’t hospital and acc to @Maria here during her time there, 80-90 a day child births takes place. Including minors giving births!
Compute mo Fr. Soc! …80-90 child births a day! It is a sin without RH bill!
Maria A. says
Hello tukayo! Napakahalaga ng first hand na kwento mo. Lalo akong naininiwala na napaka-importante ng batas na ito.
pinay710 says
@maria, noon g1969 manganganak na ako kaya sa Fabella ako nagpunta dahil free dun. pero noong papunta na kami ng byenan ko sa nurse station nakita ko sa pasilyo ng hospital mga inang nanganak na at nakahiga lang sa stretcher at yun iba magkasama sa iisang stretcher magkabaligtaran ang higa. ganun kadami ang nanganganak. dami nang administration lumipas hindi nila nakita ito? IMPOSSIBLE!!
Jeremiah_CheGuevara says
Ninoy said The Filipino is worth dying for without distinction! Noynoy says only the Filipino born by choice is worthy to live. #NOTORHBILL
Jeremiah_CheGuevara says
Raissa – where are my other posts before this?????? Why resort to brazen censorship? Does not speak well of you and your site!
raissa says
Relax. Stop jumping.
One of your posts ended up in the spam bin. Wonder why the WordPress program did that. Hmmmm.
vander anievas says
@jeremiah,
utoy, ikaw ga ay ngagay-on laang dito sa cpm? ay kay-inam ng tilamsik ng laway mo eh…sweeping ang pangungusap mo. ako ay pro-RH. i care not if the supposed budget to be allocated will enrich the manufacturers. i believe pnoy’s administration can handle procurement and distribution properly. and even if this was passed by GMA, i will still support it. kase nga UTOY, are ay para sa ikakabute ng kalagayan ng mga INA at mga BATA na nagkukulang sa alaga dahil sa dami nila sa isang BROOD(imagine kung may 6 o 9 na bata sa isang pamilya laang…) mahirap ga iyang aruken?
Victin Luz says
Ha ha ha UTOY….UTOY……@ vander….. UTOY …it makes me laugh @vander not that the meaning is bad…. But hmm … I will not elaborate anymore let him discover for himself if somebody else called him UTOY…. It’s not BAD… I just laugh ha ha ha.
leona says
May high blood pressure itong santong-CheGue…hahaha…shoots “unwell” words from the balls!
leona says
@CheGue…from your Aug. 10, 2012 @10:33 p.m. at No. 65.1 “non-materialization of innocent lives;” and “by preventing their births.” You say all these because of the use of contraceptives, etc., bla bla ba.
When “lives” do not materialize, there is no “prevention” that takes place of “innocent lives.” You also cannot correctly say “preventing their births” supposing the word “their” to refer humans…as it was prevented, so there is no “theirs” that exists. Contraceptives prevents concepcion, the forming or generating of human beginning is not realized. It is not “coming.” It never came.
It never came. It (“to be” human) never happened at all.
So, Nonoy is not doing what you are saying on the RH bill. You have a lot of inconsistencies in your expressed statements here. Check. I just suggest you to Check again. We discussed this specific points days ago. But if you still insist otherwise, you are entitled to it and so are we and PNoy & Congress who agrees with us and not with you.
You can live with the RH bill becoming into a law. Being a male, the law is more for the females.
Mel says
Mel says
@Jeremiah_CheGuevara
You wrote, “Noynoy says only the Filipino born by choice is worthy to live.”
Where is your reference link or which publication you quoted it from?
I don’t mean to be spoon fed, many would like to read it’s entirety.
Thanks.
Victin Luz says
@Mel……if he can not give you an answer WHERE , I presumed that @Che wanted to shift his arguments and understanding by EQUATING the Demacration Line of the Begining of LIFE ( conception ) to PINOY’s RH BILL specifically contraceptives.
Look kabayan comment# 76 of@Che Guevara ….his personal take on RH BILL
Mel says
Hi @Victin.
Jeremiah_CheGuevara represents a big margin of filipinos who has a skewed perception, blight interpretation and misunderstanding of the RH Bill 4244.
It is good that he takes the time to present his thoughts and feelings here at Our Cyber Plaza Miranda. His comments embodies the misinformed and closed mindedness of many of our kababayans.
Iyon lang, many are slighted by his way of asserting and defending his religious rights and beliefs impugned on by the RH Bill. Many CPMers are frustrated that the likes of him hasn’t woken up or smart enough to realize the meaning, context and benefits of the Bill. Imagine, 10 or 16 years in the making… Kaya some couldn’t help but throw insults at him. And he takes it very personal inspite of a pseudonym ID.
If he is a family person with kids, I doubt if he (or his spouse) doesn’t or haven’t used contraceptives too. Perhaps his spouse has some in their cupboards or repeat medical prescriptions at hand. AND MONEY IS NOT THE ISSUE to avail them straightaway.
There is fear there (granting if he is for real and not a paid hack/PR), but actually – bias at mayruong discrimination sa comments niya. Because of an endemic corruption in the gov’t machinations – no to family Reproductive Health planning for the under privilege, poor and destitute.
There are signs and proofs that the gov’t leaders (e.g. House Cons & Sens) are changing for the good. There has to be an element of trust that this RH Bill 4244 will work since PNoy is leading the way.
Again, Jeremiah_CheGuevara may well be right if there is a different leader at the Executive helm – a copycat of GMA or Erap.
(check you guys 2morrow. good pm. mabalos)
chijap says
Haha. Are you really that ignorant.
An unborn child, be it natural or artificial, planned or unplanned already has a classification?
So let me get this straight, if a couple had unprotected sex on a time when the girl is ovulating, at walang nabuo, kasi ginusto ng Diyos yan? Have you considered the natural reasoning?
The Lord works in mysterious ways my friend. So does nature.
To accuse pro-RH folks are selective is actually a reflection of you.
If you have nothing better and productive to contribute, there really is one tagalog phrase for you: tumabi ka nga dyan, pahamak ka lang.
Victin Luz says
@chijap…. Ha ha ibinabalik nya uli sa science and religion ang reasoning nya, he want to outsmart us about LAW pertaining RH BILL but failed. Ayaw tumabi iyan.
Look comment#76 of @Che Guevara…..his understanding of RH BILL correlating it NINOY’ Filipino is Worth Dying For
Maria says
Sir, mahiya ka. Kung wala po kayo ginagawa, sasamahan ko kayo ngayon din sa Fabella. Magvolunteer work po kayo dun kahit 1 – 3 buwan. Nakasara mga mata mo, sir. Kailangan mo buksan.
idde says
@Jeremiah_CheGuevara:
Your personal take on the RH bill is sadly misinforned Once again, the RH bill DOES NOT mandate or penalize anything. It evens reiterates that ABORTON IS ILLEGAL. No person or famiily is forced to accept any of its provisions. I understand if you feel that your religious beliefs may be infringed upon by this bill and that is your right. But a lot of citizens stand to benefit from this bill, and most of them may CHOOSE to avail of its provisions.
jorge bernas says
@ iddle,
Tama ka iddle, Hindi yata naintindihan ni jeremaiah ang kahulugan/kagandahan nang R.H.Bill at ganyan nalang ang pag tutol. Para maintindihan mo jeremiah ay tanungin mo mga mag asawang may mahigit 6 ang anak kong masaya o nagsisisi sa dami nang kanilang anak…Gising ka nga jeremiah? TUTA ka yata nang mga makasariling mga PARI at OBISPO…
Alan says
I’m just curious Jeremiah — when you talk like that do you sniff your armpits afterwards?
Jeremiah_CheGuevara says
Alan, this comment of yours posted 12:40pm was posted ahead of my No 76 comment (posted 9am)! Why’s that? such that I wondered what was Alan replying to unless you saw my unprinted (censored?) comment beforehand, which only saw print now after 4 hours! I have already twitted about this…your censorship. Thanks your group changed your mind …this time. Let debates flourish and mind the consequences. Muds thrown can be thrown back at you. Dont do unto others what you want others wont do to you – the Golden Rule.
raissa says
Stop whining.
I was curious to see what you were up to.
You said you had been twitting about our “censorship.”
Sure enough, you have. See http://twitter.com/jeremiahcheguev
I see you have two followers. One is a Soldier of Christ. The other is EU Disco. Did you check who or what EU Disco is? It’s a spam site propagating the use of depilatories to shave the armpit.
Here’e the link to a woman in bra showing off her armpit. http://www.eudisco.com/action/4_sesiones_de_depilacin_definitiva_con_lser_alejan.html
That’s one of your followers.
Jeremiah_CheGuevara says
Nobody is anybody’s troll here but if that’s what you want, that’s your choice. Prevent people like me and others you call ‘troll’ to visit your site and just discuss among yourselves.
The bottom line and the defect I am pointing out in the RH Bill, among others, is that It ignores its Policy Declaration that any repro health program must be consistent with one’s “… religious convictions, cultural beliefs…” (pls read the Declaration of Policy it’s in the first page). Make it a bill of real and free choice. Don’t impose anyone’s brand of morality on others, on what’s a right and wrong population policy or sex policy. If a Catholic or anybody else doesn’t like it in conscience, don’t impose on him/her. Respect is fundamental in any human enterprise!
In my case I never resorted to insults or name calling on anybody here first (pls read my first blog). But the survival instinct embedded in every life form compelled me to resort to the tactics of some of you here. Let’s be fair and unerring here. Some of your kind just exhibited despicable manners and before we knew it the ‘despicable’ escalated. But I assure you I am no religious nut. I hate any kind of nuts be it religious or atheist who sees others other than them as always wrong! I’ve never been a nut that’s why I have no org and value my independence and free choice as I enjoy my life to the full. Noynoy’s act of fast tracking the RH Bill first reading vote contrary to sked which Raissa termed sa ‘outwit’ just caught my attention and before I knew I am already waging my own battle against the RH.
But here’s personal take on the RH Bill:
In its present form unless duly revised, THE RH BILL is a COMPLETE DISAVOWAL OF WHAT NINOY (our modern day Filipino hero) declared: THE FILIPINO IS WORTH DYING FOR! And it refers to all Filipinos without distinction who were, are and will yet be born, whether poor, middle class or affluent.
And his son NOYNOY is leading the reversal (I’ll not say yet, betrayal) of his father’s creed by declaring: Only the Filipino born by choice, not by chance is worth dying for!!
But I’ll agree: At the end, It’s all a matter of choice and conscience for each individual as he/she charts his/her short life here on earth. Individual conscience and belief must be respected at all times.
So in its implementation assuming it is accordingly revised and passed into law, I suggest it should be conscientiously done and overseen by a composite group of concerned citizens or NGOs, not just left to our corrupt politicians and govt agencies (which is public knowledge) who only see in the bill a windfall of corruption (the max corruption take in medicines in govt is 70% of the price (ask your few honest friends in govt who know of the SOPs).
Jeremiah_CheGuevara says
Thanks for posting Raissa even though it took some time more than 4 hours eh! I subscribe to the principle Give credit where it’s due!
Mel says
Hey @Jeremiah_CheGuevara.
Here’s a tip on how to create a blog.
Sample, go to :
– http://leoalejandrino.wordpress.com/
ABS CBN might even profile it.
– http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/blogs/insights/08/12/12/rh-let%E2%80%99s-keep-it-simple
——
@Bayanihan wrote this months ago.
MATUTO PO TAYONG MAKISUYO AT MAKIUSAP. MAGING MAGALANG DIN PO TAYO SA KANIYA.
Mel says
@Jeremiah_CheGuevara, this is the clause or part you are alluding to.
“The State recognizes and guarantees the exercise of the universal basic human right to reproductive health by all persons, particularly of parents, couples and women, consistent with their religious convictions, cultural beliefs… ”
The gist of the Declaration of Policy, by the gov’t as a service provider, regarding the above clause is not an imposition, not mandatory or compulsory for the ‘client’. Although education or counselling may appear as such in the remaining Policy. If the ‘client’ elects to abstain from or refuses to use the methods or medicines by reason of their religious convictions (e.g. beliefs, church laws, religious edict), the gov’t recognizes… that right for them to refuse. If the ‘client’ wishes to continue to reproduce more children than they can afford to support, the gov’t is not lawfully oblige to stop the ‘client’ to do so.
The only penal authority imposed, on another topic, is when abortion was, is or will be committed. For that it is unlawful or illegal.
CASE SCENARIOS
IF FOR instance, the DSWD adopts a policy for would be welfare recipients to undergo and MUST adopt or use contraceptives as a condition for further assistance. Then that is tantamount to breaching the ‘client’s basic human right.
If a husband refuses to use rubbers since the wifey has no pills or other methods available for her to prevent pregnancy, then the wifey can sue her husband or make a criminal complaint. She has a right to refuse her husband the enjoyment without protection err prevention for unwanted pregnancy.
Victin Luz says
In your comments the last paragraph of which , if that was really your intention , RH BILL had only undergone the 1st READING and with your group which you enumerated ( statistician, political science major, doctors etc. NO RELIGIOS SECT ) before it will be presented to the lower House for their approval on the 2nd reading your group should make and present the necessary COMPUTATION, PRICING and or the FINANCIAL ASPECTS of the PROPOSED RH BILL where YOU and WE believes GRAFT’s or CORRUPTION will be coming ( AMMENDMENTS ). WHY WAIT for the IMPLEMENTATION of th LAW or the APPROVAL of the BILL .?
LAY your CORRECT FIGURES here and we will go along with you if found to be excessive, in STOPPING the RH BILL for your good reason of INCOMING GRAFT and CORRUPTION.
BUT NEVER go with you that CONTRACEPTIVES and RESPONSIBLE PARENTHOOD on the RH BILL is CORRUPTION , IMMORAL and UNLAWFUL.
chijap says
“Nobody is anybody’s troll here but if that’s what you want, that’s your choice.”
Patay tayo sa English!