And a quiz on Sabah 
In today’s Hotmanila column Alan takes a look at one of the oldest fixtures of the Catholic church – the confessional box.
If you recall, that was the same box that did in the Philippine’s first liberation movement.
If priests talk about their congregations’ confessions, what can we do about it?
Hot Manila – by ALAN ROBLES
Posted at 03/21/2013 1:16 PM
A few days ago, a priest revealed that more Filipino youths are now confessing to the sin of artificial contraception. How did he know? Other priests told him.
If this is true, it’s an admission that Catholic priests are getting together and comparing their confessions.
This is great!
To read the rest, please click on this link.
Sorry I wasn’t able to post his column last week which I found pretty hilarious. It was about Sabah –
Test your knowledge: How well do you understand the Sabah issue?
Hot Manila – by Alan Robles
Posted at 03/13/2013 6:18 PM
Geographically, Sabah
a. is an island
b. is part of an island
c. belongs to us, basta!(2) Sabah is located
a. at the bottom of the Philippine map
b. at the top of the Borneo map
c. at the bottom of the President’s priorities
To take the rest of the quiz, please click on this link.
allan says
Sabah will be and still be Philippine territory much said, we have to be one in unison to say these to malaysia and not comment like a prudent educated knowledgeable pilipino person. huwag maging traidor…
Victin Luz says
I just could not understand to those people who instigated the picnic invasion of Sabah about their real purpose if not to drag down only the administration of PNOY to it’s lowest level but I’d did not. It went higher and the chances of UNA’s senatorial candidates in winning next election are now sinking. Only three ( 3 ) were now on the magic 12 and it could go down to it’s lowest at two ( 2 ). Ting Ting COJUANCO was now visiting the KIRAMs offering legal assistance for FREE but only 500,000 th. Pesos for those captured in Sabah and in the Philippines. KURIPOT – ilabas nya ang mga kinita nila sa HUETING noon panahon ni CORY at hindi pa naman siguro ubos iyon….
If the Philippine Government will conduct referendum to the small islands like SIBUTO, CAGAYAN de TAWI TAWI, PAGUAN, MANGTSE and even in BALABAC and let them select to whom are they going to be GOVERN or what NATIONALITY do they want ,,,Malysian or Filipinos,,,,? ……..OVERWHELMING they will select MAlaysian…..Financially stable sila doon kaysa sa atin , more peaceful and minimal government officials corruption… To those Filipinos who are having an illegal activities ” hayan gusto manatiling Filipino kasi nababayaran nila ang batas sa PILIPINAS .
Tama si @ Rene ,, we will be together in justifying the proprietarily claim of the Sultan on Sabah and a separate sovereign claim for an independent Sulu Area and Sabah at United Nations.
baycas says
Excerpts from the book entitled “A Decade in Borneo: The Literature of Travel, Exploration and Empire” written by Ada Pryer as edited by Susan Morgan can be found here…
http://raissarobles.com/2013/03/24/i-need-your-advice-guys/#comment-102762
(My Comment Nos. 15.1 to 15.5)
baycas says
Uulitin ko lang ang naiposte ko na sa blog post na nabanggit sa itaas (No. 11)…
Mangyaring tunghayan ang balitaktakan ng Pilipinas at Malaysia dito…
If in case there will be an ICJ setting for the Philippine claim to North Borneo in the future, a preview to that may very well be the 2001 ICJ oral proceedings when Pilipinas tried to intervene in the Indonesia-Malaysia dispute.
Relevant ICJ documents can be accessed here:
CR 2001/1, CR 2001/2, CR 2001/3 and CR 2001/4
Some notes in order to know the Pilipnas’ premise as presented in the ICJ:
– Pilipinas asserts that her sovereignty only started in 1962 when the Sulu Sultanate ceded it to the Pilipinas government
– Pilipinas asserts that only a portion of North Borneo is involved (only the ones included in the Sulu-Overbeck Grant of 1878)
baycas says
Ang mga tunay na dokumento ang siyang best evidence (natutunan natin ‘yan sa Corona trial).
Subali’t may pagkakataon na ang unofficial documents ay nakatutulong din…
An unofficial summary of the ICJ’s decision on the “Philippine Intervention” in 2001 (na tinutukoy ko sa No. 11.1) may be read here:
http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/102/7700.pdf
Rene-Ipil says
@Baycas, Victin, Moonie & Macspeed
I think that Ada’s book contains by far the most revealing and reliable account about the Sabah concessions to Baron Overbeck by the Sultans of Brunei and Sulu. Ada Pryer was the wife and companion in Sandakan of William Pryer who was the traveling companion of Overbeck in the Philippines and the appointed administrator of the British North Borneo Company in Sandakan starting February 11, 1878.
If I were to litigate the Sabah claim in behalf of the Sultanate of Sulu, I would use the 1893 book of Ada Pryer, “A Decade in Borneo”, to convince the ICJ of my arguments about the meaning and significance of the concession agreement between Baron Overbeck and the Sultan of Sulu on January 22, 1878. In effect I would be putting both Ada and William Pryer in the witness stand to testify on the import of the concession agreement as well as the accompanying document which categorically named Overbeck as delegate of the Sultan of Sulu in the exercise of sovereign powers over a great part of Northeastern Borneo (Sabah for brevity).
Ada’s book also supports the 1881 letter of the Earl of Granville of the British Foreign Office which pointed out that the grant made by the Sultan of Sulu in favor of Overbeck comprised of a concession; that the grant of territory and the powers of government made and delegated by the Sultan of Sulu was recognized by the British government; and that the sovereignty over same territory remained vested unto the Sultanate of Sulu. (See the 1881 letter of the Earl of Granville in North Borneo timeline by Manolo Quezon)
Ada Pryer repeatedly and consistently mentioned that all the agreements or treaties executed concerning Sabah were in the nature of concessions. While the basic agreement between Overbeck and the Sultan of Sulu included the general grant of rights, property and territory, it did not specify any sovereign rights and powers. And based on the schemes and acts made by the company through William Pryer, the main thrust concerned commercial development and operation particularly in agriculture. Collection of taxes took a distant second and was actually a failed endeavor.
The basic agreement simply granted to Overbeck a concession or the right to use, develop, operate and administer a certain territory that was Sabah for commercial purposes. A separate document contained the delegation of specific sovereign powers and rights by appointing Overbeck as Rajah of Sandakan. Overbeck was conferred the title of Rajah to enable him to administer Sabah and exercise delegated governmental or sovereign authority to impose tariffs and collect taxes, among other powers. But Overbeck could not sell, cede, convey or transfer his concession rights to another without approval by the British government. More so, Overbeck could not sell, cede, convey or transfer dominion or sovereignty over Sabah even with the consent of the British government because he was a mere delegate of the Sultan of Sulu and sovereignty remained vested unto the latter.
As it was, the concession agreement could not by any stretch of imagination be a transfer of dominion or sovereignty over Sabah. The purely sovereign function to impose and collect taxes had to be granted in a separate document signed by the Sultan of Sulu. In the document commissioning Overbeck as Rajah, the Sultan of Sulu categorically specified Overbeck as his mere delegate to exercise his sovereign powers and rights. And as the delegating authority, the Sultan remained as the real sovereign. (The text of the document appointing Overbeck as Rajah is included in the North Borneo timeline by Manolo Quezon)
Ada Pryer provided the most plausible explanation on the nature of the concession granted to Overbeck by the Sultan of Sulu. That Overbeck was merely a concessionaire over Sabah. That no transfer of dominion or sovereignty comprised the basic agreement as the concession pertained to commercial development and operation of the area. That the sovereign function to collect taxes was exercised by Overbeck as a delegate by virtue of the appointment extended to him by the Sultan of Sulu in another document. It was, and still is, recognized internationally that all the parties in any cession or transfer of dominion or sovereignty over a territory should be nation states.
In other words the basic agreement of January 22, 1878 comprised a CONCESSION – not a CESSION.
William Pryer, Ada’s husband, must have known why the Sultan of Sulu granted Overbeck the concession on Sabah. In her book, Ada wrote that the Sultan of Sulu granted the concession due to the representation of the British Consul General in Labuan who accompanied Overbeck. The Sultan wanted a British flag to fly over Sabah to thwart any act of aggression on the said territory by the Spaniards who was then threatening to conquer Jolo. That upon conquest of Jolo by the Spaniards, Sabah would be his escape route as he correctly thought that Spain would not dare to overrun Sabah with the British flag flying thereat.
Having said the above statements, I believe that under the present conditions the question of sovereignty over Sabah is a settled issue. In democratic States, including Sabah, sovereignty resides in the people. The sovereignty exercised by the Sultanate of Sulu over Sabah had vanished when the people of Sabah chose their leaders and formed an independent state in August 31, 1963 and became a federated state of Malaysia in September 16, 1963 (see Wikipedia on Sabah). The Sabahans had chosen a democratic and republican government, effectively ending the monarchical rule of the Sultanate of Sulu over the concession area granted to Overbeck.
IMO the only rights left to the Sultanate of Sulu is proprietary in nature in the sense that the amount of concession fee that was agreed in 1878 has become anachronistic and unconscionable to the detriment of the Sultanate. Considering that the concession has a perpetual term, the fee must be adjusted in accordance with any internationally recognized economic mode. For example, the economic value of 5,000 Malayan dollars in 1878 should be converted to the present economic value in terms of land value, merchandise cost or service fee. Maybe a ton of rice that would cost a Malayan dollar in 1878 would now cost 300 Malayan dollars. So that the Sultanate should be paid the concession fee of 1.5 million Malayan dollars now. In addition, the same formula could be applied retroactively during any stage of considerable change of economic value in the concession area since 1878. Of course arrears must be settled correspondingly.
moonie says
thank you, rene-ipil. the sultan is probably kicking himself now, his armed aggression is likely to cost him a lot. malaysia may hit him real hard, and not give him a ringgit in concession. the millions, or billions, he had expected could be gobbled up in compensation payment toward sa mga nasawi sa malaysia, yong mga malaysian police na napatay ng army niya. thousands of sabahans may ask for compensation too, in lump sum. they were invaded at nasira ang peace and order nila, some were traumatized and forced to leave their villages to avoid the fighting. nasira rin ang mga pinaghahanapbuhayan nila. at once stage, some of their villages resembled ghost towns. and if the malaysian really want to play tough, they may even charge military operational expenses to kiram. kiram may also have to pay massive amount of money for the rehabilitation of the people of sabah. thanks again, rene-ipil, and have nice easter.
Rene-Ipil says
Moonie @10.1
Thanks. It’s a case of quid pro quo or something for something.
macspeed says
@Rene-Ipil
That are so great research and feedback to all of us, Allah will grant you more wisdom.
@Victim, moonie and Vander
i dont know personally Kiram, i just put myself on his shoes, must worst i will do, my land is my land, over my dead body.
Kiram for me is a Filipino and i have to side with him in case a voting is ask.
i respect your opinion, however un-Filipino, please respect mine…
Rene-Ipil says
[email protected]
Thanks to Baycas who provided the link on Ada Pryer’s book titled “A Decade in Borneo” and also pertinent excerpts therefrom and more on the Sabah issue.
baycas says
@Rene-Ipil at sa lahat,
Dapat may mamagitan…
Palaging may STANDOFF…stalemate.
Sasabihin ng Pilipinas: sovereignty ang issue
Sasabihin ng Malaysia: propriety rights lang
@macspeed,
Ang tagapamagitan ay hindi “baril at bala” o “itak at bolo”. Walang panalo pag may dugong dumanak.
—–
Hintayin natin ang nilalaman ng pag-aaral ni de Lima/Ochoa kung may porma at sustansiya ito. Naisumite na kay PNoy.
May batas na 5446 na hindi pa nababago o napapawalang-bisa. Malamang itutuloy ang claim through ICJ. Kukuha tayo ng dalubhasang dayuhan…minsan na tayong nagpatulong sa isang abogadong mula sa Yale (Prof. Reisman)
Sinubukan na dating ilaglag ang claim, sinagip lang ng Senado ang claim sa utak ni Salonga. Sa ngayon, mahirap pa ring ilaglag ang claim. Pakibasa ang No. 7, 7.1, 7.2 at 7.3 sa kasalukuyang blog post. Ito ang link para madali…
http://raissarobles.com/2013/03/21/ways-to-monetize-confessions/#comment-102699
baycas says
Oops, PROPRIETARY rights dapat at hindi propriety!
baycas says
@Rene-Ipil at sa lahat,
Dapat may mamagitan…
Palaging may STANDOFF…stalemate.
Sasabihin ng Pilipinas: sovereignty ang issue
Sasabihin ng Malaysia: propriety rights lang
@macspeed,
Ang tagapamagitan ay hindi “baril at bala” o “itak at bolo”. Walang panalo pag may dugong dumanak.
baycas says
“Proprietary”, it should be…
baycas says
Hintayin natin ang nilalaman ng pag-aaral ni de Lima/Ochoa kung may porma at sustansiya ito. Naisumite na kay PNoy.
May batas na 5446 na hindi pa nababago o napapawalang-bisa. Malamang itutuloy ang claim through ICJ. Kukuha tayo ng dalubhasang dayuhan…minsan na tayong nagpatulong sa isang abogadong mula sa Yale (Prof. Reisman)
Sinubukan na dating ilaglag ang claim, sinagip lang ng Senado ang claim sa utak ni Salonga. Sa ngayon, mahirap pa ring ilaglag ang claim. Pakibasa ang No. 7, 7.1, 7.2 at 7.3 sa kasalukuyang blog post. Ito ang link para madali…
http://raissarobles.com/2013/03/21/ways-to-monetize-confessions/#comment-102699
baycas says
I posted a Tagalog comment that went through moderation phase. Anyway, it is of no matter…point is…
Dear everyone,
I believe de Lima recommended to pursue the claim…
Please read Nos. 7, 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3 in this blog post. Here’s the link for easy reference…
http://raissarobles.com/2013/03/21/ways-to-monetize-confessions/#comment-102699
Victin Luz says
@Rene, ..thanks sir @Rene….. We hope that De Lima’s recommendation should be to pursue the claim of Sabah but only for Proprietary issue or better we dropped the whole Sabah issue.
baycas says
If the issue will finally end up in the International Court of Justice, Pilipinas has to be consistent.
Legal hurdle or not, long shot or not, next to impossible or not…
ICJ records/documents will say that Pilipinas claims sovereignty and that will be the case.
Remember, “Mali siya” ( http://raissarobles.com/2013/03/07/why-sultan-jamalul-kiram-iii-declared-a-unilateral-ceasefire-at-noon-today/#comment-101461 ).
Victin Luz says
True [email protected] …whatever , we have to stay together , consistent at ICJ.
Rene-Ipil says
Baycas & Victin @10.7
Assuming that the cession of Sabah to Philippines by the Sultanate of Sulu remains in effect, I would suggest that the Philippines should pursue its claim for sovereignty over Sabah. But only to lay the foundation for an independent state for Sabah and Sulu which, I think, would be a palatable menu to UN. Meaning that the Philippines would be ready to propose and enter into an amicable settlement later with Malaysia. That if Philippine sovereignty was recognized over Sabah, it would be willing to forego both Sabah and Sulu to form an independent state.The Royal Houses of Sabah and Sulu would be recognized and treated like the Royal Houses of Malaysia
That would be a win-win solution for the Philippines, Sabah and Sulu by helping Sabah and Sulu gain their independence and getting rid of the Philippines’ political, security and social problems in the Sulu area.
Victin Luz says
Brilliant idea [email protected]….we hope that Filipino billionaires will help us pursue this ultimate dreams of our Muslim brothers on the area….Let their business interest vow to the sovereignty of the new State to be created..
It will be the Legacy of PNOY and we could considered him as ” Hero and the son of a Hero ” .
macspeed says
hayyyy tagal din alang access dito, he he he he
mabuti nakapasok ako sa bahay ni Kuya at Ate…
Sultan and his members of family will never claim such and such if they have been practicing for so many decades the collections of rentals and so on and so fort kahit na ba namana lang nila yun sa kanilang mga ninuno.
It is the same thing as when one inherit an a farm land say rice farm from their ninuno and somebody will come and claiming what they have been practicing for farming for thier life, makikipagpatayan kahit sino.
Malaysia thought a war will give them the full rights of Sabah, they never thought of revenge from Tausog in the coming times, this bloodshed will never cease as long as meron Tausog, go go Tausog…show the real fight, inch by inch, one goes far….Allah will guide the real owner…
Victin Luz says
Mcspeed ,, Malaysia never went to war with the group of Filipinos who went on a picnic invasion on their territory . It was the KIRAMs group who distorted their peace and tranquility at Sabah and TREATENED their security …..ikaw ang pasukin sa Apartment na inuupahan mo by the owner na armed pa in the presence of your Family ,,,, GUSTO mo ba? HINDI.. At makikipagpatayan ka din if their lives of any member of your family will be on danger, DIBA?
Karamihan sa mga TAUSUGs ay galit sa ginawa Nina KIRAM , @Mcspeed …
moonie says
so many tausogs that settled in sabah are now malaysian citizens, they called themselves suluks now, not tausogs. true, they dont like the kirams and even pointed out to malaysian authorities the supporters of kiram who provided food and shelter to the invaders. go, go tausogs, and the only tausogs that go there are those that got paid $600, and then, many of them got killed. nauto sila ni kiram and paid for it with their lives. the suluks in sabah are muslims too, and think Allah is on their side.
mahirap kausapin and friend mo, victin, parang si kiram mismo siya, and doesn’t keep himself up to date with current affairs, or read newspapers to know what is going on around here and in malaysia. he ought to jump online and read more international and national news.
vander_anievas says
@moonie,
hirap paliwanagan. andaming alam.
sino ba yung binansagan ni alan na fanatic?
moonie says
vander, the closet taliban is sniffing around.
vander anievas says
:)
macspeed says
@victim
youre putting the words of thousands or maybe millions of Tausog with a few Tausog you knew? Please think how will you depend yourself if tens of Tausog pro Kiram attacks you? You need to be careful with your opinions.
Tausogs are Filipinos inlcuding Kiram and members of his house, since they are of the same race, you need to be on their side for claiming back Sabah.
Please read the whole item 10 from Rene-Ipil
It is better to believe the news from Filipinos than the news from Malaysian…who will twist the facts so they will own Sabah ALL of it.
Jose Rizal was buried with a Muslim rites covered with white cotton mat, proof that he is a warrior, his words cuts sharp each throat of Damaso invaders, a true fighter who never sided with the enemy, who never believed the spaniard government, their books and teaching…their lies
same case with Malaysian news regarding Sabah issues, full of LIES…anyone who sided to Malaysians are not Filipino, ano sabi ni Gat Jose Rizal?
Victin Luz says
@mcspeed ,,..I am just being honest not only to myself but to the majority of Filipinos .. In Fact If we go deeper , many Filipinos wanted that Sulu area and part of Mindanao to be given Independence for them to rule themselves to what direction they really wants…. A referendum on those areas must be held for them to choose kung autonomy or full independence ang talagang gusto nila…
Victin Luz says
Since when did we acquired DOMINION and/or SOVEREIGNTY over Sabah actually ?
We Filipinos were being turned around by our MAMBABATAS with the acquiescence of the Supreme Court..ginagawa tayong mangmang o walang naintindihan sa mga BATAS na ipinapasa nila at sinasangayunan naman ng ating Korte Suprema…..
The Philippine Constitution was passed/ratified by us on the year 1987 redefining the worded meaning of section 1 : National Territory- removing the sentence ” all other territories belonging to the Philippines by historic right or legal title ” to improve our relations with Malaysia while allowing flexibility in pursuing the Sabah claim ” kuno “. knowing that the definition of the baselines of the territorial sea of the Philipppines was also embedded under RA 5446… Comparing what was inside of RA 5446 and the 1987 Constitution ( National Territory ) so it still favored us because that Sabah’s claim was not yet dropped under The 1987 P.C. ( do you think the Malaysians did not know this ? If not why did they still connived with MILF, MNLF and other groups in destabilizing the Mindanao area after the passage ? ) remember it was RATIFIED by the Filipino people the Revision of the 1973 Constitution. RATIFIED..
The main INGREDIENT of a Land and Sea Property ( Title ) like our National Territory are the technical descriptions ( azimuths ,bearings and distances ) that will DETERMINEs a COUNTRY or COUNTRY’s boundaries or LIMITs legally…That is why neighboring countries are CONSULTED by the United Nations before defining/drawing their respective boundaries.
Like in a Title of your lands the FIGUREs especially when properly written in words GOVERNs over any departure of the paragraph ….what I mean to say when we RATIFIED the 1987 C.., it carries with it the DESCRIPTIONs under RA 5446,,……BUT ..BUT..when
they passed RA 9522- amending the DESCRIPTIONs being the most important provision of RA 5446 and that they had also amended the 1987 Constitution without consulting the Filipino people at large …They changed our BOUNDARIES without the Filipino people RATIFYING the same and the Supreme Courts told us it was COSTITUTIONAL …. How is that ,, diba naggagaguhan lang tayo sa PILIPINAS……
Malaysian people are not DUMBED by not knowing what we are doing with our Laws and our Constitution …. DOMINION over Sabah ? mayroon ba o nagkaroon ba tayo ng ganoon?
Victin Luz says
Changing the descriptions of our National Territory as RATIFIED by us at the1987 Constitution is an AMENDMENT as called for under the 1987, 1973 and the 1935 Constitution and should have been decided thru a REFERENDUM by us…. but still our Supreme Court said it was Constitutional ,, what a country do we had ….
Victin Luz says
Technical Descriptions to be exact ….
baycas says
1. Drop the drop?
baycas says
2. Drop the drop?
Page 237
Chapter 9 Bilateralism and Multilateralism in Malaysia-Philippines Relations
By Isagani de Castro, Jr.
In “
Edited by Narayanan Ganesan and Ramses Amer
Institute of Southeast Asian, 2010
baycas says
3. Drop the drop? footnote
—–
* http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2011/august2011/187167.html
baycas says
4. Drop the drop?
moonie says
baycas, isn’t the ICJ’s ruling irreversible? it has given sabah independence in 1963, and for us to claim sabah, gee, we could be banging our heads against a wall here. okay, I get it, we can try and claim sabah as much as we like, but that doesn’t mean we’re going to get sabah, right?
baycas says
Wala pang ruling ang ICJ ukol sa “Pilipinas claim to North Borneo”. Si Judge Franck lang ang may separate opinion noong tinanggihan ng ICJ ang “Philippine Intervention” sa usapin ng Indonesia vs. Malaysia.
Ang gist sa sinulat ni Judge Franck ay “self-determination trumps historical claims sa ngayong contemporary setting“. Sabahans own Sabah.
I am for dropping the claim…if given the opportunity to vote for it.
Naglagay ako ng maraming babasahin dito sa blog ni Ma’am Raissa (Thanks, @raissa!) para sa ikaliliwanag ng mambabasa. Nang sa gayon makapamili siya ng may nasasaisip na kaalaman sa paksa (informed choice).
Sa huli mong tinuran, mapaunlakan lang marahil ang batas na 5446 kaya maghahabol…pero malaking katanungan kung tayo’y magwawagi.
Pakibasa ang No. 24.1 ko rito:
http://raissarobles.com/2013/03/24/i-need-your-advice-guys/#comment-102859
moonie says
thanks, baycas, I’m for dropping the claim too, drop it once and for all and not shackle the future generation with more of the same problem. kung maghahabol si kiram, it’s his choice and ought to fund the venture himself, and not through the public purse. he ought to face off with malaysia. I bet they’re more than happy and eager to meet him face to face.
sabah for sabahans. there are many pinoys living there, some are already malaysian citizens.
kindredspirit says
noticing a continuing effort or interest in this website to keep the sabah issue alive. so many articles, so many documents, so many quizzes – all drawing our attention over and over again to the royals of sulu and their sabah claim. i am sorry but i am now going to read more interesting things in the rappler. will return when other issues come up in this blog.
baycas says
After a long while in the back burner, thanks for reading the Sabah issue.
Hope you spread what you read…
Gene Simmowns says
Yey! Your updates are back! :)
baycas says
(21) The Kirams hold on to the Macaskie Doctrine of 1939 as evidence for their Sabah proprietary claim. What does the Macaskie Doctrine of 1939 say?
a. Nine heirs of Sultan Jamalul Kiram II are entitled to the Sabah proprietary claim.
b. The nine heirs, having entitlement to Sabah, will receive CESSION (not rental) monies in perpetuity.
c. All of the above
raissa says
I’m still looking for the actual text of the decision.
Could you see, pls, if you can find it anywhere online?
thanks.
baycas says
The closest I reached so far was this archive…
MACASKIE DECISIONS
A request for a copy is in order.
ofwobserver says
in brunei in the royal regalia museum it displays the agreement between the sultan of brunei and the british north borneo company with regards to sabah rental. this agreement was forcibly taken at the same time with brunei and sulu by the british with their superior warships. before this time, the sultanate of brunei awarded half of sabah to the sultanate of sulu in gratitude for helping in a war (further research on the war or rebellion required). the malaysia government still awards annual rental money (actual wording and reference required) to the sultan of brunei for occupying sabah. i have reason to believe that the wording may be similar to the agreement that the british made with china with regards to ” rental in perpetuity” in hongkong.
raissa says
really?
Malaysia is also paying cession money to Brunei? Do you have any docs to show us?
Mel says
Sounds intriguing on a different facet.
bigyan mo naman kami ng links o material para matuto din kami.
o dili kaya si ginang RR para maisulat din niya, dagdag sa naiipong susunod na mga kabanata ukol sa Sabah.
baycas says
Two treaties in one image:
http://www.bt.com.bn/sites/default/files/imagecache/600×450-watermark/images/front/20130307-17371-325991.jpg
The caption:
baycas says
A story on these two treaties…
Baron de Overbeck (with Alfred Dent’s money) wanted to secure the taking of the whole of Sabah (northern portion of North Borneo from the Sultan of Brunei and the northeastern portion from the Sultan of Sulu).
baycas says
The above story agrees with mlq3’s timeline…
baycas says
I believe the bone of contention is in the word PADJAK (or pajak)…if indeed both treaties contain the word.
—–
Lease or Cession? Always the question.
Lease or Cession? Mainly depends on…
Who’ll do the translation?
For PH’s Lease is MY’s Cession!
Mel says
Kudos @baycas
Cowie, who provided the help, could be the culprit who provided the mistranslations between the Sultans and the foreign speculators.
What if he turned out be a mute? Or with a hearing disorder?
Imagine, well versed on Malay dialect(s), English (American/UK), Chinese (mandarin and/or cantonese), Spanish …
Cowie’s penmanship must have had the hallmarks of chicken scratches. Or I might be wrong. Cowed in shame…
raissa says
Thanks mucho
baycas says
Quiz continued…
(17) Which statement is the MOST believable?
a. The “terrorists” mutilated Malaysian Security Forces.
b. Malaysian Security Forces committed abuses on Filipinos in Sabah.
c. The president crumpled the three letters then played Paper Toss.
(18) Which statement is true regarding a Sabah conspiracy?
a. A politically-motivated conspiracy was hatched against Pilipinas and Malaysian governments since its an election year for both countries.
b. Even before statement A, British and Malaysian federation conspired to own North Borneo, now known as Sabah.
c. Long before statements A and B, the Sultans of yore conspired to own and share piecemeal the land called North Borneo, now known as Sabah.
(19) On the Sabah referendum that never was: now is the time for what?
a. Sabah referendum to unite the areas being claimed by Pilipinas and the areas NOT being claimed
b. Sabah referendum to declare independence, allegiance to Malaysia, or allegiance to Pilipinas
c. All of the above
(20) On possible Pilipinas referendum to ascertain all Pinoys’ stand on Sabah dispute: what will Pilipinas do to the claim?
a. Drop
b. Claim
c. Return to “back burner” for another 50 years
baycas says
1. Drop the drop?
zamera says
Sabah quiz – to get a perfect score, choose all the choices – they are all correct :D
praetorius says
if the offertory collections are not enough (+2nd or 3rd collection) then they just might….
jorge bernas says
@ praetorius,
Kong tama ka, Nagmumukha na tuloy silang PERA…Hindi makagawa nang walang BAYAD, samantalang marami na silang PERA, Akala ko VOCATION nila ito at hindi PROFESSION…Dapat magpakita sila nang magandang halimbawa na hindi lamang sa PERA at TINAPAY NABUBUHAY ANG TAO kondi sa mga MAHALAGANG UTOS NANG DIYOS NA DAPAT SUNDIN…