By Raïssa Robles
Here is the analysis I shared in today’s forum on the proposed Freedom of Information law organized by the Asia Society. I compared and contrasted the version of the House of Representatives with that of the Senate. It is not my aim to cast aspersions on the bills. My aim is to help improve it. It is not yet too late.
I have uploaded at the end of this piece the Senate and House versions of the FOI so you can compare them yourself.
UPDATE: Dec. 2, 2014 6:00 AM.
Congressman Barry Gutierrez has joined Cyber Plaza Miranda to defend the House version of the FOI bill. He is one of the main sponsors. His comment is at No. 5. You can ask him questions directly and tell him your reactions to the bill.
First, the good news – both the House and Senate versions will require all government websites to display content in the country’s major languages and not just in English.
Both versions require more comprehensive disclosures of government contracts and bid results. All government contracts amounting to at least P50 million will be uploaded in full on websites.
And now the bad news.
Speaking as a journalist — and I believe journalists are at the forefront of the sectors that will use the freedom of information — let me say this: the proposed bills are worse than I thought when it comes to denying the public and the media access to personal information of government employees and officials.
1.The proposed FOI will not only narrow the existing freedoms of journalists, it will also open them to being jailed for receiving leaked information.
2.If either of these proposed laws had been in effect some years back, then whistle-blower Apolinario “Jun” Lozada would have been arrested; political columnist Jarius Bondoc would have been arrested.
3.Under either of these proposed laws, a journalist can be arrested for “inducing” a government official to give information. The word “induce” is not defined.
4.We already have two existing laws relating to press freedom. Both proposed bills will actually worsen those laws. The FOI bills will restrict, if not take back ,what these laws grant.
I am referring to:
Republic Act No. 6713 or the Code of Conduct and Ethical Standards for public officials and employees; and
Republic Act No. 10173 or the Data Privacy Act of 2012
Republic Act No 6713 or the Code of Conduct and Ethical Standards for Public Officials and employees clearly states that the public cannot be denied access to the Statements of Assets, Liabilities and net Worth (SALNs) of all government personnel. Section 8 states that
“(1) Any and all statements filed under this Act, shall be made available for inspection at reasonable hours.
1.Such statements shall be made available for copying or reproduction after ten (10) working days from the time they are filed as required by law.
The House version drastically amends Section 8 of RA 6713 by making it more restrictive. Instead of making available “any and all statements…at reasonable hours,” the House version of the FOI will make SALNs available at all times by having them posted online.
That sounds OK, right? However, the public and the media will be denied access to certain “personal information” in the SALNs that are deemed to “constitute an unwarranted invasion of his or her personal privacy.”
Such information, according to Section 7 of the House version, will be “redacted” or scrubbed from the SALNs released to the public, including the media.
What kind of information can be denied journalists and the public, which RA 6713 currently guarantees?
Section 7 of the House version gives quite a long list of the kinds of information that can be erased from SALNs released to the public. These may include “signatures, addresses, telephone numbers, identification numbers, family members, race or ethnicity, religion, health, education, sexual orientation and similar information.”
The innocuous sounding phrase “similar information” is a catch-all phrase that could include personal real properties, names of corporations owned by the government official and the spouse, and types of vehicles owned.
Now at first I thought that SALNs would not fall under this clause of “unwarranted invasion of…personal privacy.” I thought SALNs were excluded by the addition of the phrase that there is no invasion of privacy if the law requires such information to be publicly available.
But my hopes were dashed with the addition of a sentence saying, in order to prevent an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, “an agency may redact such information from a record made available to the public.”
To redact means to to scrub away – to blacken out sections of a document. Yet the existing law, RA 6713 allows anyone to examine the complete SALN without erasures, for as long as inspection is done at reasonable hours.
Why do I not want RA 6713 to be watered down?
During the impeachment trial of former Chief Justice Renato Corona, it was those very details that enabled me to find out that Corona had obtained an P11 million cash advance from a long dead corporation called Basa Guidote Enterprises.
In other graft cases, officials have been known to hide their loot in corporations where their under-age children are listed as incorporators.
The devil is really in the details and if you remove those details, officials who are corrupt can more easily masquerade as angels of public service.
Another thing: the mandatory online publication of SALNs does not include governors, mayors and councilors. Why? Why are they exempted? Aren’t they all public elected officials? Using our money and wielding powers we, the public, gave to them?
Thus, I must repeat – the current law on SALNs as governed by RA 6713 should not be watered down.
I am also disturbed by the fact that both the Senate and the House version do not state that personal real properties of government officials need to be publicly disclosed. Using the House version, such disclosure can easily be prevented by classifying it as “similar information.”
To this day, property records in the Philippines are quite opaque even to journalists, even if in 1948 an editor won a Supreme Court ruling that established media’s right to access real property records.
Yes, you might be surprised to know this: there is a Supreme Court ruling that says the media — specifically newspapers — have the right to access real property records.
It came about this way. In the landmark case between Manila Post editor Abelardo Subido and Justice Secretary Roman Ozaeta, the Supreme Court ruled that the Register of Deeds of Manila had no right to bar Subido from examining records of lands alleged to have been sold to non-Filipinos.
Notice here that we are not talking of land records of silting politicians but land records of private individuals.
Explaining its verdict, the court said:
“Newspapers have a better-established right of access to records of titles by reason of their relations to the public than abstractors or insurers of title. Whether by design or otherwise, newspapers perform a mission which does not enter into the calculation of the business of abstracting titles conducted purely for private gain. Newspapers publish information for the benefit of the public…It is through the medium of newspapers that the public is informed of how public servants conduct their business.”
Subido obtained this verdict by filing a mandamus with the Supreme Court.
I wonder if journalists can collectively filed a mandamus in court to compel the House of Representatives to open SALNs for public inspection “at reasonable hours” as provided by RA 6713, which in turn is the enabling law for Section 17 of the 1987 Constitution.
The House version of the FOI threatens to erase this legal victory of Subido.
In this regard, the Senate version is the exact opposite of the House version.
While the House version bans public disclosure of personal information even of government personnel, the Senate version limits such ban to disclosures of information on those who are not government officials. As for those government officials who have reverted to private status, information during their period of government service can be disclosed under the Senate version.
Both the Senate and House versions amend another existing law to the detriment of journalists and writers.
This is RA 10173 or the Data Privacy Act of 2012. It contains a special provision in Section 4 that specifically allows use of “Personal information processed for journalistic, artistic, literary or research purposes.”
The House version completely bans the use of “personal information” of private persons “of a natural person, whether from the public or the private sector” because the House considers “its disclosure would constitute an unwarranted invasion of his or her personal privacy.”
The Senate version imposes a ban on disclosure of “personal information” of private individuals, thus amending the Data Privacy Act’s exemption that was given to journalists and writers. I beseech the lawmakers to keep this exemption in the FOI law.
There’s more: Section 22 of the Senate version will discourage future whistle blowers in government service and result in the jailing of journalists if they “knowingly directed, induced or caused” the leak.
For its part the House version (in Section 15) proposes a similar penalty against journalists who induce or cause leaks.
In the years I have been working as a journalist the guideline I have always followed is that leaked information relating to national security, diplomacy, ongoing court trials and police operations should be handled with care. But all other information can be used once verified and as many sources from all sides of the issue are interviewed.
The proposed bills also propose to restrict access to corporate information.
Today, the Securities and Exchange Commission is one of the most transparent agencies when it comes to sharing information on corporations. Everything that corporations file at the SEC are made available online.
However, the Senate and House versions both contain Section 7 (g) which bars disclosure of “financial information…from a natural or juridical person other than the requesting party, whenever the revelation thereof would seriously prejudice the interests of such natural or juridical person in trade, industrial, financial or commercial competition.”
This is very worrying. Does this mean that a journalist writing about corporations will be denied access to financial statements of corporations on the brink of bankruptcy? This has to be clarified or better yet struck down because it is a backward move.
The same Section 7 (g) talks about non-disclosure of “trade secrets.” I wonder if inquiring about drug patents that are about to expire will be covered by this. Drugs are very expensive locally and one way to bring downs costs is to locally manufacture those drugs for which patents have expired. Foreign drug manufacturers beat the system by tweaking the formulation just a little bit.
Another provision that worries me is Section 7 (J) that is the same in both versions. It bars government agencies from disclosing information that would “likely frustrate the effective implementation of a proposed official action.”
If this was in effect in 2007, Apolinario Jun Lozada would have been sued for disclosing the anomalous NBN-ZTE deal with China. So would Jarius Bondoc for writing about the leaks in Philippine Star. The disclosures and leaks scuttled the NBN-ZTE altogether.
Personally, as a journalist, I have SEVEN minimum demands for an FOI. These are:
One – The online publication of SALNs of the President, the Vice-President, the cabinet secretaries and undersecretaries, heads of government-owned and controlled corporations (GOCCs), the Supreme Court justices, all members of both the House and the Senate, commissioners of the various independent commissions, all senior military officials with star rank, all senior police officers starting with the rank of police chief superintendent, all governors, city and town mayors and all members of the city, town and provincial councils.
Two – The online publication of the ABC costing of all bids amounting to at least 50 million pesos. That means, the agency bid estimate, the actual bids and the actual construction cost. As for GOCCs, the posting online of year-end financial statements similar to those required by the Philippine Stock Exchange.
Three – Access to all real property records for journalists in print, broadcasting and online and members of private anti-corruption watchdog groups.
Four – The online publication of all ordinances and other acts of all city, town and provincial councils. It’s ridiculous, for example, that in order for you to read the Zoning Code of Quezon City you have to go all the way to the archive section located in the top-most floor and leave your ID so you can xerox the only copy of the Zoning Code on the first floor. Local officials do a lot of “magic” with the zoning code so that one day you may just wake up and find, for instance, a crematorium being built in your residential neighborhood because the city council passed a special law exempting a businessman from the zoning restrictions in exchange for burying a certain number of constituents free of charge. I wrote about this and no less than the House Speaker Feliciano Belmonte who was then the Quezon City mayor stopped the construction of the crematorium. But his successor let it through.
Another example, do you know that Makati City has an ordinance that bars people from drinking beer while walking in the streets even in the so-called tourist areas? Do you see signs in Makati warning people about it? I know this because several HK journalists who came to Manila to cover the post-Luneta bus hostage massacre were on the brink of being brought to a Makati City police station because one of them happened to be drinking beer while walking. There was no sign against it.
Five – No restrictions and revisions on already existing laws relating to freedom of information.
Six – Archiving of already available information online. I noticed that every change of administration erases the information on the previous administration.
Seven – A system of declassifying “Secret”, “Top Secret” and “Confidential” state documents particularly referring to security matters. This is the only way our historians, political and social scientists can write our troubled history as a nation. As a writer, I was once privileged to read and write about “Top Secret” presidential papers given to the late President Elpidio Quirino when I wrote his biography, which I turned into a study of state corruption.
Everything else outside of these seven minimum demands can be left to enterprise reporting.
HERE IS THE SENATE VERSION
HERE IS THE HOUSE VERSION
Let’s make it simpler.
No more paternity test. Just make us believe that the Sonora family has not created a story for the public.
Just show us proof that you are not a Sonora: a simple swab from you and your adopted mother will do. Then, watch your polls rise to the stratosphere with the sensational news.
How about the people’s money? Shall we just forget it even if It is true that Mary Grace has been a beneficiary of Marcos loot? We might as well abolish the PCGG and forget about Marcos.
If she is not a Sonora, I will be comfortable in thinking that she has nothing to do with McCoy.
If she is a Sonora, you make your own judgment whether you will give her a free pass or not.
rene-ipil, the people’s money, we’ll ask grace about that when time comes.
on the 10th anniversary of her father’s death, grace has already said she does not have to be president to fight corruption. she know about her stumbling block and side stepping. I await her next move.
jorge bernas says
Sa totoo lang bilib na sana ako kay sen. Grace ang kaso lang ay very selective din kasi ito dahil wala siya sa hearing tungkol kay binay gayong napakaimportante ang mga dapat malaman nang taongbayan samantalang nagpakagrandstanding siya doon sa hearing noon ni kay PNP chief Purisima? Bakit kaya? Nahihiya ba o takot si grace kay binay o nagbabayad utang? Mas gugustuhin kopa si Meriam kapag ka ganito itong si grace poe….
NO TO BINAY
NO TO UNA….
vander anievas says
tama po kayo!
kitang-kita na selective siya.
hindi pa man ay nakikinikinita ko na ang maaaring kahinatnan ng ating bayang mahal kung ganyan ang iiral. maaaring maulit din ang pagkakasalaula ng bansa sa kamay ng mga naunang nagbulid sa bansa sa pinakakulelat na ekonomiya sa asya.
jorge bernas says
@ vander anievas,
Dalangin ko sana mabasa/malaman ni grace poe itong ating kuro kuro/nakikita tungkol sa kanya at nang makaattend ito sa darating na senate HEARING at nang MAPAKINABANGAN naman natin ang kanyang galing tulad nang ginawa nitong paggisa kay PNP Chiel Purisima at sa pagpuna nito sa MRT/LRT fair hike na parang nagpapa EPAL lang din pala samantalang kong tungkol kay binay ay parang BULAG, PEPE, BINGI at D_ _ _ G? sayang idol kopa naman sana itong si grace pero nakakaduda ang katahimikan nito tungkol kay binay?
vander anievas says
kung ibabase natin sa mga komentong ibinabato dito, maraming extra baggage si GP.
imho, mas marami pa kaysa kay gma.
huwag na nating isama ang pagiging baguhan niya.
pwedeng maulit ang era ni gma sa pamamagitan ni GP.
marami siyang utang na loob sa mga malalaki at popular na personahe.
Re: your post 96.2: “Innuendos against Poe are fair game. Below I started the scrutiny to assume that McCoy is her father is true. So far nobody has offered counter argument on the importance or effect of the rumor on her.”
I think it’s very important, for the rumor brings up very serious questions regarding her character, which she must answer if she wants to become President. (That rumor is not recent. It was whispered by cronies and political hacks almost as soon as Grace was born.)
1. If she were indeed McCoy’s love child, it would bother a lot of sensible people:
a. Does she know, but is not being up front with the Filipino people?
b. Did she or Rosemarie get dirty money from McCoy? (This would be likely, given what we know of what McCoy did for his Australian lover – Rosemarie would have been the previous lover if the rumor is true.)
This question 1.b is important regardless: How was she able to purchase a 3-story mansion? (No, a teacher’s aide salary would not hack it – even full-time teachers in the U.S. are hand-to-mouth. If it came from her husband’s inheritance, that’s dirty BIR money. If it came from FPJ, prove it. The public would be relieved to know that. But that seems unlikely: why would FPJ give much of his wealth to her, and not to Susan and FPJ’s (illegitimate, not adopted) children?) Who paid for Boston college – at least $60,000 per year for four years?
c. Will she now be devoted to family (Bong^2, Imelda) rather than country?
d. Has she been lying to the public this whole time? (She was very dogged in knowing her biological parents. She must have had a serious talk with Susan or Rosemarie at least once. Will they hide the secret from her at adulthood? If they love and respect her, I think not. Was this the reason she rebelled by running to the U.S. and marrying at 20? And how was she able to do that without parental support if she did not have a Trust account?) And that story about being a foundling found in Church – how will she rationalize that family lie to the public?
2. Because of the implications of 1, it is important that she invalidate the rumor as soon as possible. Which she can easily do via a paternity test. Nothing wrong with that – they do it in U.S. courts all the time. If the rumor is false, she will get a lot of votes, and a right to the Marcos loot. (Not my vote though. I would still want to know if she is going to put FPJ’s close compadres’ interests ahead of country: Erap and Binay to be more specific.)
I’ll stop here. It’s clear to me that Presidential aspirants cannot keep certain information about themselves private.
Most of what you have posted are your personal opinions to which you are entitled to and all of which I respect as you expressed them as such – your own personal opinion.
Having said that, please allow me to to dispute a couple of statements you made:
1. “And that story about being a foundling found in Church – how will she rationalize that family lie to the public?”
You think that the story is a lie but you but you state your opinion (a direct accusation that the family is lying) without factual support.
2. “I’ll stop here. It’s clear to me that Presidential aspirants cannot keep certain information about themselves private.”
Again, you’ve made a sweeping statement which you – or anyone – have not been able to establish as fact and not fiction/propaganda.
3. ” I would still want to know if she is going to put FPJ’s close compadres’ interests ahead of country: Erap and Binay to be more specific.)”
Did Grace not choose PNoy’s coalition party over Binay and Erap’s UNA? Is she not working hard to push the FOI bill which trapos like Binay et al are fighting?
Yes, of course my views are “Opinions”, not “News”.
In particular, re:
“You think that the story is a lie but you but you state your opinion (a direct accusation that the family is lying) without factual support.”
My statement that its’ a lie is under the supposition “1. If she were indeed McCoy’s love child…”
“Again, you’ve made a sweeping statement which you – or anyone – have not been able to establish as fact and not fiction/propaganda.”
Please read my statement again. It merely states (in words to this effect) that public officials must open up to the public if they are running for office – especially the office of the President. For me, the footnote to 1.b and her stance on Erap and Binay are most important to clarify to the public.
“Did Grace not choose PNoy’s coalition party over Binay and Erap’s UNA? Is she not working hard to push the FOI bill which trapos like Binay et al are fighting?”
That doesn’t clinch it for me. Where is she regarding the Senate hearings on her compadre Binay? Has she clarified her stance on her good friend Jinggoy? Is she pushing an FOI bill that Raissa is questioning so vehemently? Is she rejecting Binay’s feelers to run under UNA, or is that still under consideration?
parengtony, grace did not really choose PNoy’s coalition party over binay’s una. at pre-election 2013, grace was initially a free lancer, a guest candidate of both PNoy and binay’s una, and member of both parties. since grace could not commit to one party, una made a move and grace was disallowed membership. so, grace became full fledge liberal under PNoy and has been since. she may change ship comes 2016 election.
Fact of the matter is that Candidate Grace was only attending PNoy’s coalition party rallies and never attended any of UNA’s rallies (funny howyou guys like to omit info). At some point thereafter UNA, after giving Grace some sort of a deadline, decided to remove her name from the UNA line up. Your version is …oh, never mind.
but her half sister (?) sheryl cruz joined the campaign rallies of UNA on her behalf! speaking of sheryl cruz, she is already divorced by her american husband. i would like to ask anybody out there if her ex husband is a policeman or fireman. the news about their divorced was within the election year. if her ex husband is policeman, is there a link about the candidacy of her rumored half-sister?
Johnny Lin says
I already said “assume the rumor is true” the next question then would be:
Did Grace know it from the beginning?
Read PDI editorial page Jan 4 2014, detailed story how Grace talked to the woman who found her in Iloilo This same woman remained anonymous for long time until she was sought by Poe’s to shed light on the story
Belief is personal. my opinion is post #94.
I read that PDI editorial. As a statistician, I find that story possible but unlikely. What are the odds that a foundling left in Church will have some likeness to the Sonoras and the Marcoses? (Take any random person in the street. Would he have any likeness at all to you?)
She must have been a beautiful baby. Why did the friend who first got Grace and living in Iloilo give her up to Susan who was living in Manila? What was the woman doing in Church at 4 in the morning?
Re your post #94, as I have said months ago regarding this issue: My hatred for McCoy is so deep that I would not want a direct progeny to become President. (He’ll be laughing in his mummified state in Batac.) That would be adding insult to injury.
That stance is of course personal. You are more forgiving.
Johnny Lin says
One can believe whatever one wants to believe. That is a fact and reality. You are not different from belief.
People do different things for different reasons meaning other people don’t do the same things you do.
“What is that woman doing in the church at 4 AM?
Obviously you never went to church in early morning in the provinces. Many churches have their morning mass daily at 4-5AM, meaning some people go early to help the priest or set up their patio store or drop by the church for short prayer before going to work. By questioning what other people do because you do not do it is irrational because you only wanted to reinforce your belief by asking the question.
Go to Baclaran, people in the vicinity are very active, they seemed to be always awake. Likewise in Quiapo. Your doubt is like questioning Lord Mountbatten, claiming he climbed Mt Everest planting a flag, “what is he doing in the mountain putting a flag there”
Upon realization that personal actions are different from other people, people will realize how odd some people are and more often than not those doing weird things make unusual discovery. Heard of that guy whose hobby is scanning the fields in rural England with his metal detector. After many many years, one early morning he found a large trove of gold coins dating back to King Richard. So, what is he doing early morning in the fields?
Destiny with a little bit of luck happens in this world!
Ok. Admittedly, I am a product of U.P. agnosticism.
Point well taken on the woman at 4am.
Except, there must have been witnesses to her finding the foundling? Did she bring the baby to the parish priest?
I am just a natural skeptic .
Any comments on why Grace looks like Rosemarie and has similarities with Bong^2’s younger sister?
Johnny Lin says
Skepticism is belief.
Story of that woman remains as it is because it is hard to change the facts the way she described it. Like what they say “I’ll take your word for it”. However, if you are skeptical you are entitled to your belief.
Coincidence is not unusual. Google stories on topic it’s a Weird world. You will be surprised that twins separated from birth due to adoption ended up in the same state, did not meet each other until they married twin brothers.
How bout that Pacquiao doppelgänger that many Filipinos watching TV believed Manny lost because this look alike lost. What are the odds that in his lifetime he will become a boxer like Pacquiao and end up in his undercard?
Look at Filipina movie actresses now. Don’t they all look alike, from Kristen to Kim to Heart to Kristine? Do they have the same parents? Or they are all children of Belo?
He he he!
After she went to US in 1987 Rose came home briefly in June 1999 and was prevailed upon to extend her visit to July and attend the birthday of Susan. Ricky died in 2001 but Rose never came. FPJ run for president and died thereafter in 2004. Rose did not come to bury FPJ. In April 2013 Rose came home again to campaign for Grace. In the UNA proclamation rally Sheryl represented Grace.
Think about it.
Coincidence means: a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent causal connection. synonyms: accident, chance, serendipity, fortuity, providence, happenstance, fate; a fluke.
Filipina actresses are not random choices. They became actresses because they mostly fit the mold of Filipino tastes: light-skinned, tall, Eurasian looking (Nida Blanca, Susan Roces are prime examples). (Are we racists?)
My question remains: if you took a random baby in Iloilo, how likely is it that she would have similarities to a Sonora and a Marcos?
In any case, if your Presidentiable is her, I can only say to myself: that your qualifications for a President are far lower than mine.
Johnny Lin says
Ricky Lo wrote in 2001 a column about Rosemary and Sheryl when Ricky Belmonte died.
Are you really an statistician? From UP??? Here you go again, you are judging based on your choice. I do not know how you were able to conclude that my preference is lower than yours without setting parameters. Statisticians set up methods before embarking on studies and conclusions. Is that right? if yes, your conclusion is faulty already.
Giving you second chance, here are the facts: At the moment there are names listed on the survey. If name is not listed it is not on my preference. If not on the list, I don’t consider anybody until that person is listed as possible candidate.
Among active politicians on the list my top preference is Roxas but I don’t think he is going to win unless…. Next is Grace. At present, to me she has the best chance against Binay. On both, my only criteria is they appear incorruptible. After those two, I don’t have a choice.
To me the number issue is corruption and should continue the path of PNoy on fight against corruption. It is the number obstacle in economic progress of the country because if could affect everything from employment to tourism to uplifting poverty for alleviation.
Good Economy of the country is the passport to success. Singapore, China, Hongkong, Thailand, Brazil are examples. Foreign investors like me understand the economic problem in the Philippines, first hand.
Now tell me your preference among those names in the survey list if mine is lower than yours.
I’m skeptic too, balikbayan. 4am, not 4.15, or 4.30. it looked very much a pre-arranged meeting to me. be there at church, not the other church, but this church, and must be there by 4am. am, mind you, not pm. the story must have been rehearsed to perfection, delivered better than a movie script worthy of award. a woman found her, not a demented woman, not a human trafficker, but a sane woman who knew exactly what do do.
long ago in the province, churches are usually closed after 10pm, afraid of communists. after hours, if people needed priest for emergency like giving the last rite, people are directed to go to the chapel or priest’s house next to the church, and ring the door bell there.
@ johnny lin it so happen that jaro cathedral is not baclaran or quiapo church. our mass at jaro cathedral starts at 5:30AM in hiligaynon. at around 4:00AM mahamook pa ang tulog sang amon nga pari kag iya nga sakristan. ( the priest and his sacristan are still in deep sleep). at sarado ang simbahan sa ganoong oras.
palagay ko that issue about “foundling” inside tjaro cathedral was not sold out sa aming taga iloilo. rosemarie and susan roces are from bacolod city, negros occidental. alangan na doon nya isilang ang anak ni macoy sa negros. sa iloilo city, maraming sundalo ang nagatrabaho sa malacanang at military. batay sa balita sa iloilo hindia totoong foundling si grace sa jaro cathedral.
Johnny Lin says
As I said many times, that was the story of that woman.
Believe it or not
“No use crying on spoiled milk decades ago”
Move on to next level, prove that Grace was not an innocent victim
kalakala, we people from the province certainly know our churches, opening and closing times included.
sad about the lie told long ago, now set in concrete and did not come with undo button, difficult to undo now. if I were susan, I’d say the foundling story was ‘da king’s’ idea, a joke he took with him. and thus, absolve grace.
and thank you, johnny lin, too. it’s not whether grace is innocent victim, it’s her fitness, her honesty and integrity we are concerned. we cannot choose our parents, and grace certainly cannot.
@ moonie i agree with you. thanks
It is also my personal opinion that she is lightweight as of now, as she herself admits. She got to be Senator using the same route as Jinggoy, Revilla jr., Junjun Binay, etc. – name recognition, in her case based on da King’s popularity with the masa. (BC is a 3rd rate institution in the U.S.)
Unless she proves herself in the Senate, I would not consider her Presidential material.
Now, the Ombudsman… she is a heavyweight. I thank her profusedly for changing the dynamics of justice in the Philippines.
I have a Phd. in Statistics, but from the U.S.
Please read carefully:
“if your Presidentiable is her, I can only say to myself: that your qualifications for a President are far lower than mine.”
Here, I am asserting that Grace’s qualifications are lightweight. She does not pass my criterion for being President. BC is a 3rd rate college. Movie Board? Phfft. She needs more experience. And she needs to show some signs that she will do the right thing, by showing that she did the right things in her past.
She also has to dispel the ugly rumor. Genes are strong determinants. How can she assure us that she will not do what McCoy did – appear to be for the country in the 60s, then completely corrupt in the 70s-80s?
I agree with you in one respect: if the choice is between Binay and her, I will choose her.
But now that Binay is vulnerable, it is time to consider other candidates. Mar: he may still rise if he shows competence as DILG. But if all you are looking for in a candidate is a winner in a popularity contest, well…, you might as well consider Pacman He may just win hands down.
Johnny Lin says
You graduated from US with PH.D Statistics. You never named your school, must ashamed to name it or is it online?
You look down at the school of Grace’s Boston College as third rate school.
You should be ashamed if you have a PhD from a US school that you did not know that BC is ranked #31 among National Universities behind Princeton as #1.
An American while in high school, the first thing he looks at when choosing a university college is the academic ranking published yearly by US News, then affordability and accessibility to home.
He he he
There’s top 5, top 20, top 50, and then the rest.
Lest anyone forgets before getting into pufferies about which academic institution any so-called presidentiable should come from, Gloria Macapagal would have had sterling qualifications with a degree from Georgetown University’s law school. Jose P. Laurel was the president of the Philippine puppet government during the Japanese occupation and he sported a degree from top-tiered Yale law school. And there was that 1939 bar top notcher and UP law school cum laude graduate named Ferdinand Marcos whose murder conviction was overturned by the same Laurel as associate justice of the Supreme court it was appealed to. And just to put a finer point on who would have passed or failed this ‘hurdle’,a soldier who dropped out of UP because of poor grades would have been screened out. No, his initials were not AFT. His name was Ramon del Fierro Magsaysay and he was one of the most honest, capable, and well loved presidents of the Republic.
I agree with you, @Caliphman. E.g., the best schools in the Philippines produced the most corrupt.
The degree is a primary criterion for selection in any job, but it is not the only criterion.
Johnny Lin says
You diverted or avoiding your own line of thought. I set up the parameters on preferences on my choices. You did not tell me your preference on the list, so I guess you don’t have one on the list.
As I said your opinion on Poe is your choice but it does you are right and I’m wrong.
With regards to BC. I’m not sure what is your parameter on classifying it as 3rd rate. AMERICAN UNIVERSITIES classify their schools both in academic and athletic capabilities. For sports go to NCAA Division I or II and check what category BC belongs.
For Academic go to national ranking of US school both for Universities and private colleges where BC belongs. If it is listed in both of them it is not lower than second tier.
You mentioned Ombudsman. She is not on the list so she is your preference. There are millions not on the list including me. I choose me as number one not on the list so your choice does not count on the parameters
And I know I could do better because I’m not corrupt, spend my own money like Mayor Bloomberg and forbid all employees not to accept gifts of any kind like gov elect Wolf of Pennsylvania
He he he
I never said you are wrong in your choice.
All I said is that your choice, if it were Poe, is shallow.
Yep, BC is low-grade. (Sorry to my nephew who went there. He got rejected by the top schools…..)
I won’t vote for you either, not until you prove to me that you are not corrupt and you are qualified. ( I am not changing my standards. Same criterion for you as for Grace).
I don’t have a list. I am a voter, not a kingmaker. I am waiting for the right candidate to emerge.
Johnny Lin says
your nephew is low grade then If not accepted in top Ivy University. His SAT must be in 800-900 only qualifying on the least acceptable SAT score in a Liberal Arts college.
I’m not asking you to change standard, just arguing your idea of preference based on standard statistical method. You could not be a kingmaker without preferential choice because the first rule is appoint the king from successors.
I don’t need your vote because I’m not running, Statistical probability thru preference if you studied that in PhD course
He he he
Johnny Lin says
Add last paragraph:
I will not receive my salary like Mayor Bloomberg and Gov elect Wolf.
Joe America says
I get so saddened and dismayed at these kinds of arguments, when an individual is not allowed to be his or her own person based on his or her principles, effort and achievements. It is the kind of judgmentalism or discrimination that underpins racism and sexism and other forms of pigeonholing. Of not allowing people to be free to be who they can be. Grace Poe should be judged for Grace Poe, not for her parentage. Do you realize how many Filipinos are born of unwed parents or in adulterous relationships? Are we to paste a brand or a number on their foreheads? Make them substandard individuals?
The only relevance to Marcos for Grace Poe is if she is funded by stolen money, and knows it.
If divorce were legal in the country, then there would not be as many illegitimate children – but that’s another thread worth discussing.
For you, the relevance to Marcos is my #107,1b. My list is longer.
Johnny Lin says
My post # 94 assumed already their kind of argument with parameters to contest. They still could not argue on basic principles, insisting on arguing personal belief
tried to argue on their belief yet they could not even defend their position reasonably without diverting to their gossip as line of defense.
What is sad is claiming to be a UP statistics graduate but does not understand parameters in arriving to conclusions or preference, then humiliate Grace as graduating rate American college. Some people don’t look at the mirror when they step out of their house.
Read interview of Grace in today’s breaking news, she speaks so much sense on her current decision.
He he he
Johnny Lin says
Lost words on 2nd to last paragraph:
graduating from third rate
Joe America says
Yes, Johnny, thanks. To the news now . . .
We could compare credentials privately, if you like.
And we can dissect your posts and mine line-by-line, to see who is the moron between us.
Johnny Lin says
Princeton, Univ of PA and John Hopkins School of Med
In the background i hear a karaoke machine playing ”the sounds of silence” by Simon and Garfunkel……
ako? caregiver. SPI (Skwelahan ng mga Pasaway at Ignorante, joke.) Angeles City, Pampanga.
Bilin sa amin ng teacher namin: “wag kayong magmayabang porke makakagraduate kayo, alalahanin nyo, nursing aid, 2 years at most, nurse 4years at mahigit 2,000 libro ang binasa, doctor ten years at mahigit sa 5,000 libro ang binasa. wala kayong karapatang mag prescribe ng gamot. kung hindi nyo kayang magbigay ng cpr, much better to get the hell out of the situation than do more harm to the patient needing it.
purpose of my comment. . . wala lang. pasaway lang hahhahahah.
We can do this privately.
I have too many connections on both sides and on many professional levels to want to reveal myself in public.
Post your yahoo anonymous email here, and we can start communicating.
I am with you.
When talking about the Presidency, ability is very important. Getting into a top school is an indication of ability. I would also want to know her grades in the courses she took, and that she was not a mediocre student like Bush II was at Yale.
Johnny Lin says
“I have too many connections on both sides and on many professional levels to want to reveal myself in public”; are you serious or just plain braggadocio because you came from same province of @Rosario
All I asked
is name of your US school, how could that name reveal your true identity? You volunteered the info “I have PhD Statistics in US”
I revealed my health insurance(Princeton) hospital(Univ of PA) and alma mater of my physician( John Hopkins School of Med)
Yet my identity was not revealed but you know I’m not kidding
He he he
“Grace Poe should be judged for Grace Poe, not for her parentage.”
Absolutely right, Joeam. So, let us write about Jojo, Jinggoy, Decu, Ruby and Alan vis-a-vis Mary Grace – her registered name.
Meantime let us determine the veracity of the info that Mary Grace has been a beneficiary of the people’s money stolen by somebody. And find out the criminal and civil culpability of Mary Grace, if any. I am sure there are at least circumstantial evidence in this regard. Rules of Court allow such kind of evidence. If ever, the Filipino people have the right to claim ownership of that portion of the loot.
Let us not forget that Mary Grace was instrumental in the passage of the FOI bill in the senate in the present congress. Although such bill had been passed already by the previous senate, Mary Grace should be credited for reviving same bill.
Mary Grace also topped the last senatorial elections together with Loren, Alan and Chiz of team PNoy. However, except for Alan, all of them were also adopted by Binay’s UNA. So that in my book Alan is the only true blooded Team PNoy among said topnotchers and therefore the real number one.
Did you know Bobby at Penn? And Walden at Princeton?
How about Lucas at Johns Hopkins?
I can ask them about you, if you are ok with giving a “personal” known only to them.
Or Enteng: for sure you know him, right?
Johnny Lin says
Bobby is In Singapore now. Walden must be after I left
Which of 2 Lucas?
Enteng retired in Alabang now
he he he
Well, give me your contacts.
We may still like each other. I can meet you in US or Manila.
It’s not about talking big, sorry. @Johnny Lin was disrespecting me.
But you are right. It doesn’t matter what he thinks of me.
I just want to make sure that Grace is not automatically the CPM’s candidate.
Joe America says
@Rene-Ipil, we are in perfect agreement, as I conceded to your point that there may be tangible (monetary) reasons to explore the Marcos-Poe link. Also, your point about Cayetano is interesting. It is too bad more people could not tune in to the Subcommittee hearings and see the guy at work. It is easy to imagine him being president, a hard-driving, no BS type of guy able to play soft politics or hard ball.
Johnny Lin says
I don’t dislike or disrespect you. You were not the first one we exchanged harsh words. Read all my previous posts, never started confrontation until someone make it personal or insulting to the unconcern.
Bad impression, insulting , distrusting Grace personally whether she is daughter of MCoy or got money from him was acceptable to me until I believe you crossed the line when you insulted BC since other FilAms graduated from that school.
just let you taste your own medicine to wake you up that being perch atop downgrading others unknowingly does not mean nobody else is looking down on you.
Don’t know Bill, Douglas yes.
Did I pass your vetting?
I’m around Langley area when I go to east coast or presidio in west coast.
You live in San Juan, green hills walking distance to your place, right?
Not sure. When were you at Johns Hopkins and Princeton?
Surprised you don’t know Bill Lucas. He was at Johns Hopkins before he moved to Chicago and got his Nobel.
Yes, I suppose I deserve the trashing.
I came from humble roots: large family, $100 and a scholarship when I got to the States. Only had intellect to save me. But got unimaginably successful.
So, I value my reputation, more than anything else. So, you got to my most sensitive part when you were questioning my field.
I am sorry to still say that BC is 3rd rate. That’s how we rank Top 50 in academia. Sorry if that causes you and others apoplexy.
Say hello to Bobby or Enteng when you see either one. Tell him “from 007”. When I see either of them early next year, I’ll ask about you.
Johnny Lin says
As I said Walden Bello was 1975.
Success is sweeter wearing humility as badge of honor in any weather.
Ahh, yeah, Annual powwow of “kingmakers” from UP and Ateneo coming, in Feb?
Include CPMers in your discussion. Lots of ideas from small guys around here, and they are real people voice for a greater nation.
Remember Johnny Lin, 000, “belief is in the mind of the beholder”
He he he
With you, JoeAm.
There was news that the typhoon had since passed Manila but with all the strong winds and hot air around here, maybe raissa needs to post a signal #4 in this blog until the dangers to egos and reasoned logic settle down..
it’s okey, Balikbayan and Johnny Lin, you can talk BIG, after all, most of us CPM’s here are just small people. we are not interested in your personalities as there are really humble Personalities who visit and post here but don’t brag about it.. By the way, if it’s worth to mention, there is a note by Rep. Kit Belmonte, no idea where he is from (search thru FB) about his experience with Mar Roxas while they were in the province of Eastern Samar during the recent typhoon. I’ve shared this report to all my friends in FB. It’s worth reading. thank you very much.
Its okey…as Confuseyouse says, Talk Big if you carry a Small Stick; just saying.
Johnny Lin says
like watching Mockingjay, boring in the middle, deciding to leave theatre. Turns out the ending was exciting. My ending above may not please you but it’s the best shot I could deliver.
“If you don’t want to hear my son disparage black hoodlums, turn off your tv” was the advice of Charles Barkley’s father to those questioning Charles on his tirade on black people against Ferguson jury decision.
Kit Belmonte is the nephew of Speaker Belmonte who allegedly belongs to the Samar or Binay group.
Here is the link on the article of Kit Belmonte.
Thanks @rene-ipil. This was the article i was talking about. I’m from the same province myself and i really appreciate it when the govt. helps our devastated place lest you forget how we were affected by the recenttyphoon. Itmay not be as strong as hayan that hit tacloban but it was just as devastating. Lives were saved because everybody was listened to warnings and people were prepared. They still need help in the aftermath. Funny to know, though that kit belmonte is a member of the samar group who supports binay and i suppose now a converted mar fan.
@pelang and @rene-ipil. thank you for providing this link. i favor mar myself and i am hoping grace will see the light in helping him win with her as vicepresident learning and preparing to take over in the next go-around. but having read cpm comments here about underground rivers i can’t help thinking that someone who is really with binay may see mar as the weaker opponent and would push him to be the candidate instead of grace the stronger opponent
jorge bernas says
Tama po kayo sa inyong mga obserbasyon at katanungan, Saka maging ang katahimikan ni grace poe tungkol sa alegasyon laban kay v.p. binay ay NAKAKADUDA??? samantalang importanting dumalo siya being a member sa senate blue ribbon sub committee hearing ni binay at nang magkaalaman kong kanino talaga ito kampi at nang makita ang galing nito tulad nang ginawa nito kay PNP chief Purisima at ang pagpuna ni grace poe sa LRT/MRT fair hike?
NO TO BINAY
NO TO UNA….
In my fb, because i liked Ma’m Leni, her fb post gets to my fb, just like Ma’m Raissa’s, i usually repost Ma’m Leni’s fb to my timeline public viewing with a caption My next Lady President. I also have asked my fb friends to like Ma’m Leni’s fb page so as Ma’m Raissa’s.
One time, in liberal ako page, i even asked Sir Mar if when he’s ready to file his candidancy for Pres 2016, will he please pick Ma’m Leni Robredo or Sir Kiko Pangilinan as his VP.
i believe i am helping promoting Ma’m Leni in my little own way through social media.
vander anievas says
you’re doing great service to your country.
we need more apolitical figures in our govt.
though leni’s in it now, she’s new and she is really capable.
Thank you @vander.
I believe and trust most of the commenters in CPM. I know deep down thatmost of us wants our country to be in the right path to have better service not only to its own ctizens but also to all people and earth itself.
One time, in one of the topics, @parekoy was it, who mentioned in bicolano language, he numbered political families. In one of those he mentioned Roy Padilla Sr., camarines norte’s number one darling, wherein Padilla’s children due to alcohol abuse committed “nagkitoan”. My point in pointing this out is, is it possible that FPJ and Rosemarie is the biological parents of Grace? As
@johnnyLin already mentioned, educated and decent people DO NOT hang their dirty laundry lingerie outside. And the foundling found in church is their way of
Kasi noong bata pa ako naririnig ko sa mga nagkukwentuhang matatanda sa
ilalim ng poste ng ilaw na pinalabas lang na ampon si Grace nina FPJ at Susan pero ang totoong nanay ay si Rosemarie kasi hindi raw magkaanak si Susan. Parang lumalabas na tinulungan ni Rosemarie sister nya to keep the marriage safe. Sabi nga nila ito raw mayayaman they marry their next of kin, close cousins, even siblings to keep their wealth and power intact. Pero maraming
beses din akong nakarinig na baog daw si FPJ dahil daw sa kakabayo, na pinabulaanan naman ni RoyPadillaSr in relation to his na mahilig ring mangabayo eh naka 75 na anak sa 54 na nanay.
He has a son with Anna, an erstwhile actress.
Yes @ Sir Baycas. lumabas lang tungkol kay Roinan, anak ni FPJ kay Anna Marin nong 2004 taon ng pangangampanya nya for the presidency election.
May anak pa siya, si lovie poe, doon naman kay Rowena Moran, isang modelo.
@ Sir Balikbayan, parang mas mahirap ang hinihingi nyo kay Grace kasi nga matagal ng inamin na pamangkin ni Susan si Grace. Ang nanay nga ay si Rosemarie na kapatid ni Susan.
pero dahil subalit dapatwat kwento nila ay napulot si grace sa iloilo simbahan ng isang babae ng alas 4 ng madaling araw at sa dinami rami ng mapapagbigyan bakit sa manila pa kina susan at fpj? yan ang kwento nila.
gets ko point nyo.