By Raïssa Robles
Instead of getting annoyed at me – which was what happened when I asked President Benigno Aquino in 2011 if it was true he was playing video games during the 2010 Luneta bus hostage crisis – Senator Grace Poe thanked me for publishing US state records on her American citizenship.
Which, by the way came from “Yvonne” and later “Baycas” – both active members of the Cyber Plaza Miranda who congregate on this site.
Thank you, too, @emmcee79 for calling my attention on Twitter about Senator Poe’s direct mention of my name to Senate reporters.
Abante online mentioned Senator Grace Poe’s comments.
Her office also issued a press release which transcribed the “ambush interview.”
This is a portion of the transcript of that ambush interview with Senator Poe that her office officially released:
Press Release
June 10, 2015 Share on facebookShare on twitterShare on emailShare on printMore Sharing Services0
GRACE POE AMBUSH INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTOn Citizenship
Q: Alam ko nasagot niyo na, pero tungkol sa citizenship ulit. There’s a blog…kay Raissa Robles….
Poe: Oo, sinasabi nga na kinoquote ‘yung aking katapatan. Ako po’y nananatiling tapat. Sa atin pong batas ng dual-citizenship, nakalagay po doon na kailangan mag-renounce ka before public officer. Ako po ay sumumpa doon renouncing–October 2010. Ngayon tungkol dun sa US, nirelease po nila ang aking renunciation 2012. Bakit? Sapagkat sila ay may prosesong napakahaba. Hindi ka basta pupunta sa US embassy para mag-submit…Kailangan doon ang tax return mo doon in the last 5 years, ari-arian mo in the last 5 years. Ang daming dokumento. At isa pa po ang batas lang natin ang babasihan, pwede ko sanang niloko ang ating mga kababayan at nanumpa lang ako sa public officer dito sa pilipinas. Hindi naman nakalagay dun na kailangang pumunta ka sa embassy o sa iba. Ginawa ko po ang nararapat at magmula po noon ang akin pong ginamit ay tourist visa para pumunta sa America. So okay lang po ‘yun. Salamat kay Ms. Robles na inilabas niya ang issue na iyun sapagkat ngayon mas nasasagot ko ng mas malinaw.
Q: So ma’am linawin lang po natin. Kelan niyo sinimulan yung process sa US embassy?
Poe: Sa US Embassy, nagsimula ako ng process, kailangan kong balikan ano, pero parang 2011, kalagitnaan. Bakit? Sapagkat sa batas, complied na ako just by a public officer na Pilipino. Complied na. Pero sabi ko “alam mo hahanapan ako ng butas nito e. Kahit na sabihin nila “if you’re sincere, bakit di ka pumunta ng US embassy?” I did it but before I went there, that’s why it took until the middle part of the year, kinailangan ko munang basahin, nasa internet…Ang laki ng babayaran niyo para mag-renounce, ang dami niyong dokumentong kailangan gawin, hindi ‘to basta basta nagagawa. Kung natatandaan ninyo inappoint ako ni president, magtatapos na ang taon ng 2010, so ang emergency dun ay kailangan ko mag-renounce before a Filipino public officer. ‘Yung sa US Embassy, added bonus na ginawa ko ‘yun pero kinailangan ko ‘yung mga dokumento ipasok talaga lahat.
Q: So it means while you were MTRCB chair, hindi na kayo US citizen?
Poe: And I never used my visa after that and I’m willing to answer it and if they question this in court, ako po ay kumpyansa. Nagsasabi naman po ako ng totoo ukol dito.
UPDATE: @mel found the video of the ambush interview
The citizenship issue is what her political rivals will use against her. It could even reach the Supreme Court.
As my hubby Alan pointed out , “It’s all going to emerge eventually, anyway. The story could emerge late, nasty and twisted for weaponized use by political spin doctors, or it could emerge early, factual and straightforward in this blog as a subject for rational debate and discussion.”
Another thing Alan mentioned to me: in the end Sen. Grace Poe could use the Fernando Poe Jr. solution.
And what is that, I asked him.
Well, he said, when Poe’s citizenship was questioned before the Supreme Court thousands of his supporters massed before the high court. The justices ruled in his favor.
My many thanks to Getty Images for enabling me to embed these highly evocative images.
My reply to Senator Poe: you’re welcome. :)
But one gentle reminder – you still haven’t answered the four questions I put at the end of my story. In case you forgot, here they are:
ONE – What does she intend to do with the pending cases against the Marcoses? And with the fact that the bulk of their ill-gotten and stolen wealth is still hidden abroad? To begin with, does she even (as evidence overwhelmingly shows) think that the Marcoses did stash ill-gotten wealth and should now return the money to the government?
TWO – What is her stand on the South China Sea issue? Will she enter into joint exploration, knowing full well that China will only agree to it if it is done in the context of their sovereignty?
THREE – What is her stand on the criminal cases of Senators Juan Ponce Enrile, Bong Revilla, Jinggoy Estrada and former President Gloria Arroyo? Will the justice department under her watch continue to backstop the pursuit of these cases?
FOUR – What is her stand on any cases that might be filed against President Benigno Aquino once he steps down from office?
Mel says
Rappler Video clip –
GP: “Salamat kay Ms. Robles na inilabas niya ang issue na iyun sapagkat ngayon mas nasasagot ko ng mas malinaw.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bXjndtMb4b0#t=720
raissa says
Thanks, Mel.
I didn’t see that.
Mel says
Thank you.
—
Kit Tatad wrote about similar issues on Grace Poe’s eligibility on 4 separate articles since June 2, 2015, he hasn’t received any acknowledgement to date (or so it seems), and he’s still waiting.
yvonne says
Obviously Raissa has a very solid reputation as journalist compared to…
Oh, well, he doesn’t deserve to be compared to Raissa.
Yung latest article niya, or shall I say fiction, dated June 7, 2015 ay inuulit niya yung misleading information na “So in December 2011, the Washington Passport Agency issued her a new US passport, according to reports”, when it fact the passport was issued on December 2001 and expired on December 2011, and the original reporter only made a mistake in the report.
Minsan binabasa ko si KT paggusto kong bumasa ng fiction story na pampalipas nang oras.
andsaman.”
yvonne says
Please ignore the last line, I missed to proof-read before pressing the “submit” button.
Mel says
@yvonne,
Old timers have long memories of Kit’s cornerstone during the Marcos dictator era.
Like you, I read his but with caution. Although he is a good writer but not in the same as our Raïssa.
Perhaps, if I seek to read a satire piece to Laugh Out Loud, Alan R. comes second to Kit.
I guess, I’m not the only one out here.
Rene-Ipil says
Siguro hindi pampalipas ng oras. Maaari pa PAMPABWISIT. Hindi ko alam “masochist” ka pala, Yvonne. Anyway, even fools have their own story to tell. And even useless people are useful example of a useless person.
vander says
in short, pampalibang siya sa iyo.
sasakit ang iyong tiyan kay kit.
and kit is good at fiction.
kititious stories kung ganoon.
from the best writer, kiction T.
no kitting.
lol…
parengtony says
Marcos took KT under his wings because of his talent for propaganda (“fiction”, sabi nga ni Yvonne).
chit navarro says
A woman, and a mother at that, will always try to turn a seeming liability into an advantage. That’s how she treated your article. And she is not yet a President – still contemplating on her options. So, plus-points.
And you compared it to the “annoyance” of he President when you asked him the truth on his playing video games during an incident that happened the previous year. And he was a President then, at the onset of his term. So, negative points
I also await her answers to your questions. I wish it would be as straight-forward as her answer to how she will treat VP Binay if finally he is convicted of plunder.
Parekoy says
American style yang kasagutan ni Poe.
“That is a great question!” – buying time at flattered pa yung nagtanong…
“Blah blah blah…crumbs of explanation na vague yug dates” – mahabang sagot na incomplete…pero magandang pakinggan dahil nasagot kuno ang ibang punto…
“Salamat kay Ms. Robles na inilabas niya ang issue na iyun sapagkat ngayon mas nasasagot ko ng mas malinaw.” – Great answer! Siezed turning the Threat to Opportunity!
Still overall, answering without saying anything! Classy Classic!
moonie says
standard operating procedure yata yan. grace studied political science in 1991 and now, she is applying the knowledge gained. flood them with words, drown them with words, how hard hitting those words were, I dont know. I’m still trying to find the head and tail, still reeling. I’m in limbo, limbo rocking, all the while wishing grace would go straight to the point and give clear and concise answer. make it easy for simple folks like me to understand.
parengtony says
In my book her answers were simple/straightforward, candid, and forthcoming… particularly when compared to parekoy’s blah blah blah or our resident lawyer’s avalanche of theory combinations.
vander says
@moonie,
hindi kaya relatives sina gp at “ikot” p.
their answers are paikut-ikot..hehehe
vander says
a classic dodge it is!
moonie says
cheers, vander.
macspeed says
A Presidential candidate main potential>>>Untainted of corruption<<<
Plus the various requirement stated in the Presidential Race, Miss Grace Poe has them all…
May she wins….amen
Parekoy says
may na erase ka ata…
“May 9, 2016 she wins….amen”
:)
Pero mukhang VP lang…
Rene-Ipil says
Puede ba sabihin niya kung nagbayad siya o hindi ng travel tax nuong bumiyahe siya papuntang US nuong 2009?
Victinluz says
CPMERs: Latest IBON SURVEY..
BINAY———————————————— 13.8 %
POE. …………………………………………………. 13.7 %
DUTERTE……………………………………………. 7.6 %
AQUINO………………………………………………. 4.2 %
ROXAS ………………………………………………. 3.8 %
Because Roxas landed VERY POOR at 5th PLACE with only 3.8 % —– Let us have DUTERTE for PRESIDENT or better LENI ROBREDO for President this 2016…….. ..wala talaga hindi maibenta si ROXAS, .kung ikumpara mo sa DALAG ay BILASA na talaga…..DUTERTE , DUTERTE , DUTERTE for PRES. 2016
Rene-Ipil says
“The IBON said among the issues when the survey was conducted were the corruption allegation against Binay as well as the mounting speculation that Poe will run for President.
More from: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/503030/news/nation/grace-poe-nearly-ties-vp-binay-in-latest-poll-survey
During the survey the residency and citizenship issues on Grace Poe were not yet in. Pinasabog una ni
Toby Tianco yung residency issue on June 2, 2015 sa PDI.
Rene-Ipil says
Wait lang tayo sa SWS at PA surveys.
Victinluz says
Ok [email protected] let us wait then for SWS survey or PULSE ASIA survey…
NHerrera says
I used to be induced to analyzing survey numbers but this survey leaves me rather cold. For one, the total of the numbers is 43.1%. In absolute terms knowing that the total respondents is 1496, the 43.1% implies that only 645 respondents answered with a name, 851 did not give a name.
Taking out Aquino’s name in the list, and considering the statistical error, then if we give credit to IBON, all I can say is that Binay and Poe are in statistical tie; and Duterte and Roxas are in another category. Difficult to say if those numbers suggest strongly that indeed Duterte is much above Roxas, considering the statistical error — especially considering that the actual number of the 1496 respondents who gave a name is only 645.
cian says
careful with ibon surveys. communist propaganda.
:)
duquemarino says
Yun bang Novo Trends no Casiple reliable?
Rene-Ipil says
Si Cashiple ba kamo?
NHerrera says
It is significant that the total of those numbers is 43.1% only, so that of the 1496 approached only 645 gave answers. Thus, the statistical error is more than 3%. Without considering background political events, it is possible Poe has already left Binay behind.
Victinluz says
Tama [email protected] –it could be and so as those who went with Aquino can also or with probality that they are for ROXAS…….incomplete maybe the Publication but not the survey.
Martial Bonifacio says
Kalayaan, Karapatan sa Karagatan
Link: http://president.gov.ph/news/kalayaan-karapatan-sa-karagatan/
A 22 minute documentary that shows other scenes of Chinese Aggression against Filipino fisherman. Please share!
BFD says
Thank you Martial for this video…
Martial Bonifacio says
No problem but the credit should go to DFA and Presidential Communication Group, Lourd De Veyra etc. everyone who come up with this video.
If they could have only put a subtitle in English and Chinese so we can spread it more and reach more people around the world. Say like post it in Sina Weibo or Baidu so we can send the message directly to the Chinese people and expose what their government is doing. So they can see and hear our point of view.
Mel says
nangongolekta ng IP addresses ang vetting site ni pangulo.
@martial., wala namang video
Martial Bonifacio says
@Mel I’m not a computer guy so i do not know why you can’t view the video from the official website of the office of the President but you can try to view it in his official pagebook page.
Here is the link:
https://www.facebook.com/presidentnoy?fref=nf
Martial Bonifacio says
pagebook => Facebook
Mel says
@Martial (NiNOY)
i found one at –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-ztE2Zc8jo
yvonne says
Eto ang sinasabi ko sa supporters ni Grace Poe – na yung paglalathala dito sa blog ni Raissa ng kanyang repatriation record sa Federal Register ay hindi paninira kay Grace, kundi pagbibigay sa kanya ng pagkakataon na liwanagin ang kanyang panig hangga’t maaga pa, at hindi yung kung kailan huli na ang lahat.
At tulad na nga ng sinabi ko, ang talakayan natin tungkol sa kanya ay nakakatulong sa kanya in the sense na nagkakaroon pa siya ng mas malawak na public o media exposure.
Ngayon baka isipin naman ng mga maka-Roxas na maka-Poe pala ako at indirectly na tinutulungan ko si Grace. Wala pong ganun, kung ano lang ang natitisod ko ay siya kong ipinaaalam dito sa blog ni Raissa.
Vhin AB says
@Yvonne:
Exactly. So the earlier na malaman at makarating kay GP ang isyu ay mas mabilisan na maagapan ng hindi maulit ang nangyari sa kaso ng tatay niya na si FPJ. Manatili sana tayo na kalmado at tumimbang na siyang malinaw na stand ng karamihan dito. DO NOT SHOOT THE MESSENGER. Thanks Yvonne
BFD says
Mahirap kasi kung sarado na utak mo sa kandidato or manok mo. Kailangan pa rin timbangin ang mga bagay bagay.
Katulad ngayon, minsan matutuwa ka sa sinasabi ni Sen. Grace Poe kasi swak sa pinaglalaban ng karamihan dito, kaso parang bakit now lang nya sinabi iyan? Iyan ang katanungan sa aking pagiisip.
Bakit nung unang pumutok ang issue kay VP Binay, wala sila, tahimik. But now nariyan na sila. Dahil ba sa AMLAC report?
Parang mababaw, pero siguro now is the time to bare it all out. Be transparent and be true to oneself for the sake of the Filipino people.
I hope somebody files that SC challenge so that we will know for sure that Grace is karapat dapat.
Vhin AB says
Citizenship aside ay nais natin malaman ang mas malalim na pananaw ng isang pulitiko. Sana ay masagot ni GP ang 4 na katanungan ni Raissa. Hindi lamang siya kundi ganun din sa mga nagnanais na makuha ang sagradong boto natin.
Kapag siya o sinuman ay nagdesisyon na tumakbo sa pagkapangulo ay may mga bagay tayo na gusto natin na maging clear sila sa kanilang stand. I hope that Raissa can interview the future ‘presidentiables’ with some direct questions coming from CPMers.
Victinluz says
Tama ka @VHIN dapat ay sagutin ni Grace ang apat na tanung ni Raissa , kaya lang dapat na sagutin din ni ROXAS ang mga tanung na iyan at ang mga iba pang gustong makakuha ng ating mga BOTO.
Tanikala says
if you were asked the same questions guys, ano kaya sagot nyo @VHIN at victinluz? pwedi malaman dito? thanks…
Victinluz says
Iyan ang maganda let them answer for Roxas and Binay and i will also answer for Grace…..iyan ang FAIR
Vhin AB says
@Tanikala:
I’m not a politician or running for the highest post. I’m a CPMer like you who advocates for freedom to speak and give opinion about an issue. And will never assail any person here based on that his/her views. Balik na tayo sa topic dahil hindi sinuman sa atin ang bida dito.
Victinluz says
HE HE ang babaw mo @VHIN ….whaat you are posting here and the others so as those posted earlier PROS and CONs- were PROPERLY ADVERTISED not only nationwide but WORLWIDE–Here is now your FAIRNESS to all those would be candidates for P kung si POE lang ang papasagutin ninyo-HINDI PWEDING hindi naman ako ang candidate dito….papaano ang mga milyong milyong nagbabasa dito pala…KALA KO BA para sa KATOTOHANAN dito…..
Vhin AB says
@Victin:
Move on po, sir. Balik na po tayo sa TOPIC o ISYU na mas mahalaga kesa sa akin. Salamat po ulit.
Victinluz says
Ang layo walang BIDA BIDA dito @Vhin…ang katotohanan din ang tahak natin dito…kahit ayaw natin at sa gusto …POLITICAL ADVETISEMENT na rin ang pinupuntahn naton dito…..nabasa ang mga BOOTANTE sa atin…PROS and CONs ang ibigay natin…SHOOT the MESSENGER when it is already NEEDED….already NEEDED baka ibahin mo na naman ang kahullugan nito….
Vhin AB says
@Victin:
Sige po, sir at malinaw naman ang inyong sinabi. Move on po tayo. Uulitin ko po na balik na po tayo sa mas importanteng TOPIC o ISYU.
davide says
You hit it in the center of the NAIL, at baon na baon ang pako. A reminder to the intelligent but morons in this blogsite.
Victinluz says
@YOU HAVE to SHOOT THE MESSENGER if the said messenger was more inkling to destroy the target candidate on the issue they had posted after it was already explained lengthly and rationally by the other CPMERS here .
Vhin AB says
@Victin:
Kaya pala panay mong tinitira si Yvone at mga CPMers na hindi sumasang ayon o nagsusuri kay Grace Poe na manok mo. Noted. Quiet na ako, sir.
Victinluz says
ha ha ang babaw mo @VHIN…basahin mo ang sinulat ko na MAIGE …he he….napaka SHALLOW he he ..pag hindi sumang sang ayon? Parang wala akong sinabi na [email protected]….READ and UNDERSTAND carefully my posting he he..
Vhin AB says
O siya sir. Ako na po ang mali at hindi nakakaintindi. Balik na po tayo sa isyu dahil hindi sinuman sa atin ang bida o topic dito. Hindi rin si Yvonne o Parekoy. Balik na po tayo sa mas mahahalagang isyu ng bayan. Salamat.
Victinluz says
@yvonne….kung maglalabas ka ng issue na makakasira sa isang candidato , kung talagang makatulung ang intensyon mo dapat sana ay pagkatapos na pagkatapos na mailathala mo ang iyong mga isinulat ay dapat isinulat mu din sana kung paano ang mga maaring gawin ni Grace para MALAKTAWAN NYA ang mga ISSUE na isinulat mo na makakasira sa kanya…GINAWA mo ba iyon hindi….Hindi man kami magaling sumulat o journalist na kagaya ninyo dito peto hindi naman kami siuguro mang mang na hindi namin maintindahan ang pagka sunud sunud na mga ilinalathala mo para kay Grace…At any rate as i said God and the Filipino people will still be with Grace because we can GLEAN on what happen or the result of the latest IBON SURVEY . But as [email protected] said let us for the SWS and PULSE ASIA survey first.. I can Go to DUTERTE as my P -so as my Barrio mate’s rather than Roxas and can settle Grace as our VP….
Cha says
Those of us who like to deal with facts, actual data and complete and correct information would understand where you are coming from. The rest can stick to their opinions. :)
Victinluz says
Ang LAYO ng sagut mo @CHA….how i pity you and those who can not understand what i posted…sa iba ninyo dinadala o iba ang coclussion ninyo sa mga sinabi ko kay @yvonnne…..ang layo he he….FACts then ako and was explained raionallly , lengthly , corrrectly by other CPMErs here the PROS and CONs…sige @CHA –ikaw ano ang na i post mo dito na will favor or remedy the defects other’s had seen towards POE? hanggang Yes ka rin yata ….
Parekoy says
Suggested Titles of Profiling the Presidentiables and Vice Presidentiables
1. MarRoxas -My Sugar Mama Mia! A Confession: My Oedipus complex cum mader.
2. Steytsayd Steytless Poelipina – 69 Shades of Grace: A comparative study between a Foundling and Khaleesi, Using Imaginary Dragons to Seize Power!
3. Binay-bay ang Tuwad na Daan – From Rags to Billions: An Orphan Investment Strategies
4. Duh-Dirty Ari will kill Ya! Hugas na! – How to avoid Herpes, an Instructional
5. Bobong Marcos’ Oks FORD F150 – My Rugged Truck Record and Why it is hard to live under the long shadow of your Infamous Dad
6. Chizmozong Hudaz pero may Pusong Bilog (Gin) – An Iscariot’s Encarnation
7. Cayetanong Pwesto – My Ilokanen and Germanen Roots and Why I avoid Growing a Mustache
8. Trillanes sa Tapang – Lessons in turning Adversity to Opportunity – Part 1 of Trilogy: Sa Kuku ni Gloria, Part 2: Sa Kural ni Binay
9. Erap ng Ex-con – How Eraptions turned fatal: A case of my Sons Jinggoy and JV and why not to use the backdoor first then erupt at main door and its retarding effects. A guide to proper sex.
10. Ga-Pinky lang ang Ari Ko pero Gwaping ang Sekyu ko – According to Masters and Johnson, size does not matter as long as you have a tight rectum! A Guide to a GayHappy Life!
11. The Chronicles of Narda’s Rectom – The Darna Story! Lessons in swallowing and its effects in my colon: How to Survive A Colon Cancer and a Philandering Husband
Parekoy
06-13-2015
leona says
Baka …Pres. FGP sa numero Dos mo.
:-)
Parekoy says
Okay!
:)
baycas says
Binay strikes again…
Trivia: Infanta, Quezon’s incumbent vice mayor’s full name is “Filipina Grace Rutaquio America.” She’s a Liberal Party member.
Cha says
Binay is grasping at straws.
And the Interaksyon reporter is a no nonsense, hard-hitting, and serious journalist who found this a newsworthy item on the Philippine Independence Day celebrations. :)
Victinluz says
@CHA …look the big difference of your comments above and @atty RENE…below…..CONs kalang wala kang PRO–malaya ka naman at wala kaming pakialam sa iyo..
kay [email protected] —basahin PROs and CON ang comment nya sa TOPIC ni @Baycas avobe..
MADAMI ang nagbabasa sa atin [email protected]– tinitimbang din nila kung sino ng iboboto nila next 2016 , kung alam mo man kung saan kami nanggaling sigun sa comment mo below- karapatan din namin ( kami na alam muna kung saan naggaling ) na magbigay ng sarili naming opinyon para sa gayon ang opinion namin ang susundin nila pagadating 2016 election….uulitin ko hindi ako ang unang nag HIT the MESSENGER or below the belt..NAGANTI lang ako dahil malaki ang paniwala ko na milyon na Filipino na din ang nagbabasa sa BLOG ni @Raissa…
Rene-Ipil says
“an “American Grace,” and is not a naturalized citizen.”
Maybe Binay knows the truth about Grace more than ordinary mortals like us.
This is consistent with my theory posted before that Grace Poe was a US citizen by birth because her supposed father, FPJ, was a US citizen being the child of an American mother, Bessy Kelly-Poe.
But whether Grace was a US citizen by birth or naturalization is now moot because she already renounced such citizenship for good. So, the remaining issue is her STATELESS status.
And, if adjudicated as Filipino citizen, is she natural born or merely granted Philippine citizenship by international law?
And if adjudicated as natural born, was Grace a permanent resident in the Philippines or the US as of December 27, 2009, when she left the country for the US using her US passport?
Cha says
I am not pro- Grace Poe but to be fair, her explanation of why her efforts to renounce her US citizenship came belatedly and why US records reflect her renunciation of her US citizenship at 2012 actually sound plausible.
Victinluz says
So i agree with you @Cha…..We have to respect the plausible soundness in your conclusion
Ving C. says
Yes, in that interview, I don’t think she is lying at all. I actually believe her explanation.
She complied with Philippine Laws to sit as MTRCB chair and renounced her US citizenship in front of a Philippine Public Officer, and that would have been the end of it as far as the Philippine Law is concerned. But she knew she had to go the whole 9 yards and clean up her act with the US gov’t too so that there would be no skeletons in the closet.
That she went to the trouble of also renouncing her US citizenship by formally informing the US government — painstakingly submitting all the documents from the last 5 years of her life, and paying the appropriate (and in her case, I would say, very HUGE) “exit tax” that the US govt levies on renunciators, speaks volume of her sincerity and the seriousness with which she takes her being a public servant.
Cha says
@Ving C,
That she went to the trouble of also renouncing her US Citizenship speaks of her sincerity and seriousness with which she takes her role as a pibluc servant :
It might be a bit more self-serving than that as it seems from an old interview which she gave just after her appointment as MTRCB Chair in 2010 that she was already contemplating running for an elective position in 2013 even back then. When asked in that interview if she had planns to enter politics, her response was: “Sana pero siguro sa 2013 pa. Pero sa ngayon hindi ko pa naiisip.”
So the renunciation of her US citizenship may have had more to do with her political ambitions than anything else.
http://www.remate.ph/2010/10/mary-grace-poe-llamanzares-gulat-sa-mtrcb-appointment/
Ving C. says
@Cha, she had to renounce her American Citizenship in 2010 in order to sit as MTRCB chair in 2010. If she did not renounce it, she could not be legally appointed and legally sit as MTRCB chair in 2010.
Her renunciation in 2010 had nothing to do with running for senator cause she did not run for senator in 2010.
baycas says
For Baby Marciano (sample case in the previous blog post, #74) and others with similar case…
S.B. No. 2844
[’15 JUN 10 P6:17]
AN ACT AFFORDING STATUS TO A DESERTED OR ABANDONED CHILD WITH UNKNOWN PARENTS
baycas says
Related comment:
http://raissarobles.com/2015/06/09/us-government-records-sen-grace-poe-dropped-her-american-citizenship-in-2012/comment-page-2/#comment-306860
baycas says
Related news…
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/503078/news/nation/lapid-files-bill-granting-status-to-foundlings
baycas says
Sabi ko tila naging pabaya ang Estado natin bilang isang magulang sa kaniyang nasasakupan.
Ang pananaw naman ni @leona ay na-abandona ang kalagayan ng ilang taong ipinanganak dito sa Pilipinas.
Buti pa ang Japan may pag-aaruga o pagkalinga…
The Nationality Law of Japan
http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tnl-01.html
Note that Art. 2 (iii) operates on a jus soli principle (“right of the soil” or nationality of place of birth) clearly declaring a departure from the default jus sanguinis (“right of blood” or nationality of parents) operation.
This provision EFFECTIVELY PREVENTS statelessness in children born in their territory with both parents not known.
baycas says
Of course, while waiting for a law on children born of unknown parents here…
@leona has a suggestion to register ALL births here in the Philippines immediately before cutting the umbilical cord…
The State must employ a lot of pregnant-women police who will monitor the time of ALL deliveries…
baycas says
@leona’s comment here:
http://raissarobles.com/2015/05/25/malaysia-reacts-to-my-interview-with-president-aquino/comment-page-3/#comment-305858
baycas says
Nasaan ang ganitong probisyon sa batas dito sa ating bansa kung mayroon man?
Ang Korte Suprema ba ang gagawa ng trabaho ng Estado kung wala ngang maliwanag na batas para sa mga batang ipinanganak dito na di matukoy ang mga magulang?
yvonne says
Ano ang opinion ng mga CPMers?
Kung magkakaroon ba ng bagong batas ukol sa mga deserted, abandoned, o adopted children, dapat bang talakayin din ang kanilang karapatan at ang karapatan ng adoptive parents, kung ang adoptive parents ay domestic partners na gaya halimbawa ni Aiza Seguerra at Liza Diño na nagpakasal sa San Francisco?
leona says
[email protected] … looks like – The proposed bill does not solve the problem of ‘What is the citizenship of a foundling? Natural-born citizen? Or what citizenship?
If the ‘founder’ is a foreigner, what then? Anything about citizenship of the founder to the foundling?
Kulang ang bill contents on citizenship matter.
baycas says
I guess it’s a start.
Kailangan sa Executive and Legislative branches natin ay masigawan ng…
“Hoy, gising!”
baycas says
The Philippines should be addressing two causes of statelessness (among others), namely:
(1) Children born of unknown parents in a jus sanguinis country, and
(2) Foundlings.
As mentioned here: http://raissarobles.com/2015/05/25/malaysia-reacts-to-my-interview-with-president-aquino/comment-page-3/#comment-305648
No. 1 type is exemplified by Baby Andrew who was declared outright, instantly, automatically as a natural-born Japanese. (Comment No. 50 in the previous blog post)
No. 2 type is exemplified by Baby Marciano. (Comment No. 74 in the previous blog post)
baycas says
Japan was able to solve the dilemma.
Rene-Ipil says
Payag na ako kahit naturalized citizenship. Basta meron nationality. Good na ako kay Leon Guerrero. Ayaw ko nang humirit pa. Baka mabutata pa.
leona says
I would love it to be ‘Natural-Born citizen’…kawawa naman yun bata ‘foundling’ found in this country. Like what the Japanese SC did on ‘citizen Adore.’
pickers1368 says
I her own words. 12:10 minutes of the interview:
“Oh so Ma’am linawin na natin. Kelan nyo sinimulan yung process sa US Embassy?”
“Sa US Embassy, nagsimula ako ng process..aah.. kailangan kong balikan,.. ano…parang… 2011…kalagitnaan. Bakit? Sapagkat sa ating batas complied na ako, eh. Just ‘by a public officer’ na Filipino… complied na! Pero alam mo hahanapan ako ng butas nito eh. ‘Eh, if you are sincere bakit di ka pumunta ng (sa) US Embassy? I did it. But before I went there, that’s why it took until the… the… middle part of the year, kailangan ko muna… binasa ko… pumunta kayo sa internet. Ang laki ng babayaran ninyo, para mag-renounce. Ang dami dokumentong dapat nyong gawin. Hindi ito basta bastang nagagawa kung matatandaan ninyo. In-appoint ako ng Presidente magtatapos na ang taon na 2010. So ang emergency doon, ay dapat MAG-RENOUNCE AKO BEFORE A FILIPINO PUBLIC OFFICER. Pero sa US Embassy, added bonus na ginawa ko yun pero kinailangan ko yung mga dokumento na ipasok talaga lahat.”
“So it means while you were MTRCB Chair hindi nakayo US Citizen?”
“And I have never used my visa after that, and I’m willing to answer it… and if they question this in court, ako poy kumpyansa na nagsasabi po ako ng totoo”
@Atty Rene-Ipil – translation please. Is this some sort of a Palin syndrome or just lack of sleep?
Joe America says
Haha, I’m reminded of the white woman in the US who worked her way into leadership of the NAACP by pretending to be black. She was just discovered the other day. I’m also reminded that politicians are sleight of hand experts and can pull your card from the deck every time.
Well, in truth, I’m exhausted by the debate of Grace Poe’s legitimacy and the right of people to talk about her, or against her. Passions are inflamed. I’d like to hear Grace Poe’s answer to Raissa’s questions. The rest is attorneys blowing smoke left and right and I have chronic bronchitis, so I prefer to hide in the next room.
Pickers1368 says
No explanation required. I can connect…
“So it means while you were MTRCB Chair hindi nakayo US Citizen?”
“And I have never used my visa after that, and I’m willing to answer it… and if they question this in court, ako poy kumpyansa na nagsasabi po ako ng totoo”
to
“I’m also reminded that politicians are sleight of hand experts and can pull your card from the deck every time.”
with no sweat at all.
Joe America says
:) Yep. Exactly.
kalakala says
@pickers1368, i can not connect. paki explain po kasi i’m sweating.
pickers1368 says
Of course you know of Joeam’s use of a metaphore leaving the rest to imagination.
neo canjeca says
joeam as if you’re new to Ph. yakking and yakking is the term used by Trillanes on this kind of sickness. they don’t move their butts only their over educated tongues. Yakking and yakking sort of diminished the effectiveness of Tordesillas blog. it used to be swarming with bees with lots of positive honeys.I guess that’s the way of all good Pinoy blogs.
Joe America says
Bold of you to say so, neo. Restraint is the opposite of yakking and yakking I suppose. An overabundance of words can dull the senses and accomplish the opposite of it’s intent, because people stop reading.
Ancient Mariner says
@Joe America. Oh so true. Sadly this blog appears to be being taken over by newbies who are, “overwhelmed by the exuberance of their own verbosity”.
Joe America says
I’ve had similar problems on my own blog as it has gotten popular. I had to institute a “suspension” policy to rebalance the discussion in a couple of instances. My basic request was, and is, “Let others have their say. Distinguish between the issue and the person making the argument. Pick your spots rather than engage on every comment”.
Somewhere sometime, there needs to be allegiance to the blog and the product that Raissa produces, not just allegiance to one’s own opinion.
Ancient Mariner says
Spot on.
neo canjeca says
THANKS joe am. Am conscious every time I point at something, my three fingers point back at me so I try to straightened them. It just becomes a habit, remember the handles, scrool at long paragraphs, watch for links and quotes, switch to another blog. Of course I missed lots of gems SOMETIMES. But I am content.
yvonne says
I presume that by “Palin syndrome’ you were referring to Sarah Palin, right?
I would have like to comment on that but Victinluz might claim “inducement!” or “entrapment!” so I will pass.
LOL.
baycas says
So, @Victinluz ‘restrains’ you in a way?
Where is now the freedom here?
Vhin AB says
@baycas: Maybe it’s not just about ‘restrain’. I guess coz it might go down again to a very low level of discussion like asking Yvonne’s motivation in making any statement and being construed as ganging up on Grace Poe. Tsk tsk.
Inducement, entrapment, mababaw etc. etc…, poor Yvonne or I’d say a more calculated move. Poor me. I’m all for intelligent discussion about the issue than talk about Yvone and other CPMer. So I hope Yvone was just joking.
yvonne says
You guys!
I’m just doing a research on Abad now. He might run for senator.
LOL.
leona says
From Rappler – ‘Article II Section 26 of the 1987 Constitution of the Philippines states: “The State shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service, and prohibit political dynasties as may be defined by law.”
“In a unanimous vote on Wednesday, November 20, the House committee on suffrage and electoral reforms approved the consolidated bill that seeks to prohibit relatives up to the second degree of consanguinity to hold or run for both national and local office in “successive, simultaneous, or overlapping terms.”
Does the constitutional provision covers ‘appointed officials’ also besides ‘elected officials’ in the public service? It looks like it does.”
‘Hold or Run’ for both national and local offices – meaning: appointed and elected positions will be subject of of the prohibition by law. This will also stop Pork Barrel Funds from being stolen.
So, ‘political dynasties’ as may be defined by law should cover elected and appointed officials in the public service. If the law prohibits only elected officials it runs contrary to Article II Section 26 of the 1987 Constitution.
Sen. Nancy Binay opposes substitute anti-dynasty bill. Sen. Pimentel had said he wants a version of the bill that would ban dynasties up to the national level.
According to Sen. Binay, if the bill will be passed, no one will be left in the Senate.
So be it! Replace them in accordance with the Anti-Dynasty definition.
Sen. Binay reiterated that there is nothing wrong with having many members of a family in government positions, saying they were duly elected by the people. Does Sen. BInay read Art. II SEC. 26 of the Constitution?
Sen. BInay said the problem is on those occupying key positions in government ‘appointed; by only one person. What does she mean by this? From Art. II SEC. 26, whether ‘appointed’ or ‘elected’ is prohibited as may be defined by law.
Please Pass the Anti-Dynasty Law Now. Soon! To apply henceforth beginning July 2016.
Vhin AB says
Sen. Binay should shut up! Walang delicadeza. Can’t seem to understand “elected” and “appointed”.
Mahirap maipasa ang anti-dynasty law because most of the legislators are guliry.
chit navarro says
oh Yvonne… dahan-dahan ka lang sa research mo kay Abad…
kababayan ko yan.. Ilokano yan
at marami akong kaibigan sa Cagayan at Batanes na botante
ilalampaso namin kung anumang research mayron ka sa paborito kong Budget Secretary
LOL!!!!
have a great week Yvonne..
yvonne says
@chit navarro
Di na bale Chit, cgurado namang kakampi ko si victinluz – he would be jumping up and down in joy.
LOL!
Thanks Chit!
Victinluz says
CPMErs especially to @VHIN……we have to continue discussing intelligently about Grace issue’s—about the TRUTH, but also intelligently argue every truthfulness afordable infavor for POE because this BLOG are being watched and read by milllions of Filipino people especiallly those who can not afford or doesnt want to afford in buying national daily papers, and for them to vote for POE in any position come 2016 and not for Roxas.
Although it will be early to say…my position on this matter was concurred by the latest IBON SURVEY where Roxas landed far 5th place garnering only a measly 3.8%…WHO KNOWs if one or many of those surveyed voters ha read our discussion here and because of CPMErs DEFENSE on GRACE–with all your intelllegent researched against POE , they still voted for HER , and tha is why they were already tied with Binay….Without WE as PROs on Grace , they could have vote and increase Roxas chances in the survey…sabi nga ni @mcspeed…amen
Pickers1368 says
Yes, but I don’t think it would be a “manna” for the LP in a way that replicates Libs fortune.
Sup says
Victimluz is now in Makati hospital, tripple bypass… :-)
Rene-Ipil says
Do you suspect Grace of having that Sarah Palin behavioral syndrome, particularly pathological lying?
I am not ready to grant such suspicion, if any. But Grace knew pretty well that she was still a US citizen when she assumed the job of MTCRB chairman. That although she renounced her US citizenship already before Philippine authoritities, she still had the option to resign her MTCRB position and return to US being a US citizen until she renounced her US citizenship on July 12, 2011 IAW US laws. Meaning that she never RELINQUISHED her US citizenship until July 22, 2011.
Renunciation is one among seven ways of relinquishing US citizenship. It must be done before a diplomatic or consular officer. So that when Grace renounced her US citizenship before Philippine authorities, she knew fully well that she did not LOSE or RELINQUISH such citizenship. Such renunciation was merely to enable her to assume the job of MTCRB chairman.
“According to the Immigration and Nationality Act one relinquishes U.S. citizenship if one:
A. Voluntarily
B. Performs an “expatriating act”
C. with the specific intention of
D. ceasing to be a U.S. citizen”
Clearly, Grace did not have “the specific intention of ceasing to be a US citizen” when she made the affidavit of renunciation of US citizenship before Philippine authorities. It was for “the specific intention of assuming the position of MTCRB chairman.” Otherwise, Grace should have done the renunciation for a fee of USD450 by taking the oath of renunciation before a consular officer in the US embassy in Manila.
“Since 2004, the U.S. Internal Revenue Code has contained provisions which mandate that those who:
1. Relinquish U.S. citizenship under the Immigration and Nationality Act;
2. Continue to be treated as U.S. citizens for tax purposes until they notify the U.S. government.”
By not renouncing her US citizenship before a US consular officer, Grace continued to be treated as US citizen for tax purposes. And maybe Grace really preferred such conditions for her advantage.
Pickers1368 says
Do I suspect that Poe is lying?
Let’s say Poe was not “Mirandized” when on direct. Atty. Victorino should cross her.
Rene-Ipil says
The Miranda doctrine does not apply in cyber PLAZA MIRANDA. But she chose her own lawyer in Atty. Victorino who I am almost sure warned her of the right against self-incrimination, including her right to incriminate herself.
leona says
ha ha ha
‘Do you suspect Grace of having that Sarah Palin behavioral syndrome, particularly pathological lying? ‘ . . . ‘I am not ready to grant such suspicion, if any.’ But you gave it out by explaining it completely:
– from ” But Grace knew pretty well that she was still a US citizen when she assumed the job of MTCRB chairman. x x x”
up to
– x x x “Meaning that she never RELINQUISHED her US citizenship until July 22, 2011.”
You suspect her really like Sarah Pailin’s character. . . pathological lying.
ha ha ah :-)
Rene-Ipil says
No. I think she is not so forthcoming just this one time. Not pathological.
moonie says
I reckon, not yet pathological, but on the way to being one, if left unchecked. good thing we intervened early and saved her, before she completely goes pathological. inherited trait yata yan, he, he, he.
okay, about sara palin, one time gov of alaska? marami ang mga pinoy sa alaska, they must have voted for sara palin in. yehey!
Ving C. says
Her explanation for not filing her American Citizenship renunciation at the US Embassy post-haste, is that there’s a ton of paperwork that the Embassy required of her and that took some time to comply with, given how meticulous the process was, besides which she had to compute the amount of exit tax that she had to pay in order for the American government to recognize and formailize her renunciation.
She was able to file in 2011, a delay of a few months from when she filed before a Philippine public officer. Believable naman, IMO.
Parekoy says
I think it is an insult to Poe to be compared to dimwit Palin. Poe is an average politician but not tye Palin type or the Lapid type.
We can question her inexperience and relationship with the Estradas as well as her residency and citizenship, but degarding her on labeling her stupid is a low blow.
I did say that an Independent Presidential Candidate is a Bobong kandidato but she has not filed her CoC yet and her party affiliation so mine is reserved for the future.
Pickers1368 says
Fumbling on softball questions?
Parekoy says
What if it deliberate and test if no one notices?
Pickers1368 says
That is giving a new meaning to that phrase giving the benefit of the doubt…
leona says
. . . and ‘a Bobong kandidato’ an independent’ > ‘ _ _ _ ‘Candidate’
Sabi ni Pickers 1368. . . ‘fumbling on softball [‘play’] questions’ –
he he :-)
Coffee Muna!
Pickers1368 says
Ang tanong ko lang kung ready na sya sa prime time.
Mel says
Presidentiable ‘Duterte says he can’t imagine living without Viagra’, thanks and eyes a Kadayawan award for Pfizer.
– http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/698102/duterte-says-he-cant-imagine-living-without-viagra
Why not organic seeds of Malunggay?
“Malunggay improves the motility of spermatozoa, making it a favorite among men …” – http://www.mb.com.ph/malunggay-seeds-a-good-water-purifier-research/
moonie says
oysters, talaba, I swear on oysters. high in zinc and good for genitals and reproductive health. got no side effects too, unlike viagra, which can give you headache, not now josephine!
Mel says
heh he heh
was chuckling, coming from a she.
sharing from experience?
sheh sh sheh
rhymes with xiexie, xiexie (thank you)
moonie says
cheers, mel.
baycas says
The pulmonologist client of Mang Bernie said that it is also marketed for pulmonary hypertension.
Pickers1368 says
“….Ginawa ko po ang nararapat at magmula po noon ang akin pong ginamit ay tourist visa para pumunta sa America.”
Grace’s US Passport presumably expired (not issued as Manila Times erroneously reported and the Tribune mirrored without even verifying) on 2011, and was first issued her Philippine Passport on March 2014. Therefore, she held no valid passport between Jan 2012 to Feb 2014 which explains why she has had no travel records with the Immigration Office during most of if not all those years.
So it is just absurd to say “ginamit ay tourist visa para pimento sa America” if it was meant to support an argument that she already lost her US Citizenship the moment she (allegedly, of course) renounced it on Oct 2010.
Is Poe ready ready for prime time? I know of a Governor who knew better.
Parekoy says
That one needs checking…
Parekoy says
I’ll take a stab on the four questions. I encouraged othersto also share their answers.
1. I will consult my Solicitor General and PCGG to review the pending cases and will study what could be done in short trem and long term. We will go after the estate of Marcos Family. We will also consider investigating Marcos daughters and son if they are use d as dummies. If we were able to investigate and found evidence Binay’s billions of ill-gotten wealth, why can’t we do that to the Marcoses who did not even plunder our nation but they are also guilty of disappearances and killings of our Filipino People. My administration will not only go after the money but we will reopen criminal cases. It is time to show real justice that many of my predecessors failed to do! Marcoses must pay for their crimes!
2. South China Sea issue is a delicate one. We are small country compared to a superpower China but we are living in a modern world where bullies are no longer tolerated and ostracized. With UN’s help and our allies, we will pursue relentlessly and fight for our claimed territories. Howeve, joint explorations on certain contested reefs will be subject to study. My administration will allocate a budget to modernize our military and I promise a transparent bidding and procurement system that will be able to provide measures to arrest early any non-conformance to our procedures. I promise to pass the FOI into law in my first year as President and balance the right of the public to know and the right of the state for secrecy in matters of National Security and other information whose disclosure will diminish our competitiveness economically.
3. My administration will continue the Tuwid na Daan that was initiated by President Aquino and pursuing the existing plunder cases against Enrile, Estrada, Revilla, and Arroyo will have a verdict within my term. Additional, my administration will file cases based on Ombudsman’s recommendations and assure the Ombudsman and the Filipino People that I will not meddle in their work so that public officials who has administrative or criminal violations will be charged no matter their party affiliations.
4. I don’t want to speculate on the insinuations that President Aquino violated any law, but I promise that if the Ombudsman find in their investigations that there is criminal case against him, I will make sure that I will not meddle and have faith on our justice system that he will be given a fair trial.
Vhin AB says
@Parekoy: I wonder who among our politicians planning to run for 2 highest posts in the land can answer those questions in a direct and clear statement.
I remembered Gilbert ‘Gibo’ Teodoro in 2010 presidential elections when asked about GMA corruption issues and can’t seem to find his tongue. In the US presidential elections in 2008, Obama and McCain were forced to promise in front of national tv thru debate the unwavering support of their number one middle east ally, Israel. (There was an insinuation that time that Obama is a Muslim)
I wish we can do that here, too. Force the politicians to make a very clear take on specific issues such as the West Philippine Sea, Marcos loot, GMA corruption cases etc. Not a guarantee though but at least we can hold them responsible with their words and promises.
Vhin AB says
@Parekoy: to continue, Raissa and CPMers can not expect any answers from those 4 questions that she raised because Sen. Grace Poe has not declared anything yet. The good thing is that we can continue that trend. We can force those future presidentiables to take a clear stand on issues that we will raise here for each and every one of them.
NO TO MOTHERHOOD STATEMENTS. We need a clear and direct answers.
karl garcia says
On campaign time na magsama sila lahat for a talk show or a debate, pwede siguro sa text and “messaged” questions from the viewers. Kung dedmahin o ifilter sa sobrang dami nun babasahin din yun.
Parekoy says
They can answer them but how sincere are they is another matter.
An astute politician will try to avoid questions that is polarizing and may alienate some of his/her potential voterrs, and also prefers to answer last to rebut or agree to own’s advantage.
Most politicians promise the moon and the stars and wpuld like to pander for after they are elected they abandon mos of their promises and they know that most voters have short memory. Case in point is the promise of Aquino of FOI and yet it is almost the end of his term and FOI is forgotten; another one is a few months ago he will sign the Anti-dynasty Bill into law i but now that the bill is initiated he shows no urgency to pass it. These are two landmark laws if ever passed and be a lasting legacy, but he is a politivian after all and understandably sides with his fellow dynasts and the preservation of status quo of false democracynand retaining fiefdoms in this modern age!
So, with his deliberate inaction he disappoints a lot of educated Filipinos!
Vhin AB says
The FOI and Anti-Dynasty Bills are two very very important and could be PNoy’s legacy to Filipino people. He has few more months to fulfill this promise.
Ang mahirap sa mga botante natin ay hindi sila tumitingin sa record ng kahit na sinong pulitiko. Basta may pera, may personalidad at magaling magsalita ay syut na sa banga. Tapos yung mga mas importanteng usapin natabunan na kagaya ng West Philippine Sea.
vander says
sa pinas, pag di ka sumali sa debate mas may panalo.
kaya hindi patok sa atin ang husay ng isang kandidato.
2 lang ang gustong iboto ng masa
una, artista, ikalawa, nagbibigay ng limos.
leona says
Now, Parekoy is a candidate potential. For President. Sino yun vice president nya?
Any suggestion? They will be my first choice on hand. C’mom, do not be afraid to suggest. . . ha ha
:-)
vander says
@leona,
e di si victinluz na..:)
Parekoy says
Kailangan fit yung pag-iisip kasi baka makalusot tulad ni Brenda, pero kung mild lang tulad ni PNoy ay pwedeg ikonsidera…
:)
leona says
Now, Parekoy is a candidate potential. For President. Sino yun vice president nya?
Any suggestion? They will be my first choice on hand. C’mom, do not be afraid to suggest. . . ha ha
:-)
Hoy! Gising!
Parekoy says
My first choice is you!
But you need to be vetted for you might be a foundling, stateless, and have residency issues.
:)
leona says
ha ha
ala Tiangco!
:-)
baycas says
@raissa,
Include other potential candidates in answering all your questions please.
Ask them also about their stand on Lito Lapid’s (and/or others) bill to help end statelessness please.
baycas says
Salamat in advance (SIA)…
Rene-Ipil says
Tapos na boksing. Umaksyon na si action King Leon Guerrero. Foundlings would be child of founder.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/698154/bill-seeking-legal-status-for-foundlings-filed
baycas says
Akala ko Judiciary lang ang passive…at hindi makatutugon ng cue sa mga nagdaang araw mula sa mga usapin ukol sa statelessness…
Nariyang may SOCIAL INJUSTICE daw, nariyang may HUMAN INDECENCY daw, nariyang may DISCRIMINATION daw…
Bakit parang wala namang gumagalaw at tila naghihintay pa sa passive na Judiciary para aksiyunan ang laban para wakasan ang statelessness?
Buti na lang may Leon Guerrero pa ring maaasahan…
baycas says
Hoy!
Mga hoy!
Maantig naman ang mga damdamin niyo’t magsikilos kayo…
moonie says
nuns and priests beware, baka maging inadvertent parents pa kayo having found an unwanted foundling, he, he, he. be careful with damput ng damput. transgenders, mga bading, lesbians, beware. you could end being parents and chewing more than you can chew.
not all foundlings are normal, some come with baggage like babies born to drug addicted mothers; naturally, these babies are also addicted at birth and may suffer withdrawal symptoms. some foundlings may look cute and adorable as babies pero paglaki nila, merong kapansanan, autistic, retarded, kulang ang faculties gaya ng hearing problem, cleft palate, etc. some may even have inherited mental problems gotten from their biological parents.
it would not matter, though, kung mahal ma yong bata. just be prepared to put in the hard slog.
baycas says
“Hi o silver!”
Oops, Lone Ranger pala ‘yun.
Ito na lang…
“Mabuhay si Leon Guerrero!”
leona says
‘A child with no name
DARKNESS‘ – si Dinay yan! ‘With a prisoners stare’ ‘Abandoned’ by vice presidents !
he he :-)
baycas says
Back to Binay…
baycas says
“Slowly, stealthily, and surely securing the snare of the smallest section of society” will deliver the much needed votes come May 2016.
http://raissarobles.com/2014/11/08/sec-chair-wants-power-to-kill-fraudulent-firms-jail-erring-officers/comment-page-1/#comment-200842
duquemarino says
And as usual with matching boodle fight in the market.
BFD says
We all know that the Barangay Chairmen and Councillors and other barangay workers are either local in nature, hence, they are subservient to the local politicians who is reigning in their locality.
So I don’t think that they will really listen to his pronouncements because of this factor. Local politics still rules supreme in each barangay.
moonie says
free food is always welcome though. ngayon na alam ng karamihan pera pala ng bayan ang ginastos, they will eat out binay and get their ounce of flesh.
duquemarino says
Aside from the local officials, his, organizers see to it that senior citizens are invited in the boodle fight.
Wala nga lang cake, he he he.
leona says
VP Binay has been preparing since 2010!
He overlooked in 2010 to get a candiate for vice president!
How many candidates for P will be without a vp? BInay. Lacson? Duterte? Baka si Duterte for VP alone without a partner for P?
NPC – Poe and Chiz? Liberal Party – Roxas and WHO? PNoy tells Poe – ‘Be ready.’ Poe says: ‘I’m ready for P!’ he he Kung ako kay Bong2 Marcos pa VP na siya ni Roxas! Ayaw ni Poe! . . . ha ha
PNoy asks Sen. Marcos ‘Are you finished with your BBL draft?’ Better be ready Mr. Marcos Bong2 for that!
NP – who and who?
Trading and bartering horses and donkeys!
Evedelga says
The Manchurian Candidate Binay would need 10 Billion Pesos to distribute an average of P5,000 to each barangay official. It’s loose change for Binay. The Philippines has over 7000 islands, what would a few matter. Just cede some to China!
baycas says
Panganiban weighs in.
Detailed as expected from a seasoned ponente:
BFD says
ex-Justice Panganiban titillated us with this last paragraph. We may never know the truth about GP because in his opinion, a foundling is a natural born citizen, therefore DNA testing is not obligatory or mandatory or even required to validate status of citizenship.
Vhin AB says
Maganda rin naman ang DNA testing. Not only because of some political issues but also as a foundling you have questions about your roots. Knowing your real biological parents will make you complete but it won’t matter anymore in terms of your upbringing especially in the case of Sen. Poe. in her 40s already. She was raised by two good and respected people, FPJ and Susan Roces-Poe.
moonie says
tama, vihn, the framers of the 1935 const, and constitutionalists dating back to the 80s did not foresee the advances in medical science, namely dna test. now, they have to take that into consideration.
if grace know her roots, she may find out that she has half siblings and relatives she did not know existed. that she may have been living within kilometers of them, passed them across the streets, strangers without exchanging greetings.
leona says
Maybe, require by law that all pregnant mothers 7 months up to nine months must register at every Health Office of the Dept. of Health to have a DNA test taken, in every local town and cities.
To minimize ‘foundlings’ abandoned at the doorsteps of churches, garbage cans, etc.
Vhin AB says
@leona:
Maganda rin naman yan pero suntok sa buwan dahil sa laki ng gastos.Very disorganized pa ang system ng gobyerno. Mas maganda yata na masimulan yung National ID like sa US na bawat isa ay may SS Number kase mas realistic if isasagawa for the purpose of social services na rin. That way ay identified ang bawat Pinoys and all records go with it. First step na yan to have a system and everything will follow.
leona says
[email protected] – – – Magastos? ‘O, sigue. . . tattoo na lang sa bandang puit – ‘NB’ [Natural born] Name: Felicia. Nanay: Garcia. Taga Brgy: Happy Village.’
Identified na! Menos gastos. he he
:-)
leona says
May problema. . . kung ‘di pa lumabas yun Bata! Yun Nanay tinatago buntis sya. Ha Ha
Yun kay moonie ‘system’ – nga – – – puede siguro ma check and recorded yun mga buntis. Any foundling found can initially be traced from the ‘records’ with Brgy people’s help/assistance. Etc.
moonie says
leona, I think, there is a system in place. all pregnant women na nagpa-prenatal care are checked and followed up. told when next check up is due. past partum, that is after birth, mothers of new borns are to report to have their babies vaccinated. then, they will be given freebies like baby kits with baby powders, lotions, baby food and milk formulas, comb, etc.
hospitals usually send report of live births to registry of births, deaths and marriages, telling who gets born and to which parents. there are records. I think, in country towns and villages where there is no hospital, comadronas and hilots who assisted live births send reports to munosipyos and town halls.
moonie says
incidentally, if grace poe was born in jaro, there should be record of her birth in the town hall, record of a baby girl (militar?) born to such mother on the date grace said she was born, presumably 1968.
leona says
The problem there might not have been a record. A System should be created.
moonie says
sometimes, nasunog ang town hall and lost most of their records. paminsan may typhoon at baha at natangay ang mga papeles pati ng yong mga filing cabinets napunta saan-saan. and could not be retrieved.
these days, they have computer files and keep back up.
as much as possible, townships keep records of the population for census, statistics, to show growths and progress, etc. if not, they may lose government funding at baka mabawasan pa ang allocated budget nila sa fiscal year.
Victinluz says
former Chief Justice speaks —–International Law’s as part of the law of the Philipppines…
Under the 1935,1971 & 1987 Phil. Constitution – there was no EXPRESS PROHIBITION for the Congress to pass a supplementary law on citizenship for us to adopt the principle of JUS SOLI including other features or circumstances of a FOUNDLINGs. That UN CONVENTION of 1961 and being a member of the United Nation is now the supplemental Law needed that placed Grace Poe in the category of Filipino Citizen from Birth….TAMA si @ CALIPHMAN — Sir @Caliphman please come to the site. ONLY a former Chief Justice was on our side and other CPMERs too.. But CJ Panganiban might rule against POE with regards to her residency if POEs intent and domiciled are not to be ascertained properly..
Victinluz says
@caliphman– try to read also about the DNA test… You were right again and it was very clear that the said test will be PERSONAL for POE if she want’s to know HER bilological parents ,but since she decided to stay calm and silent it was because of WITH DUE RESPECT to HER adopted parents FPJ and SUSAN and also to her biological mother especiallly kung si ROSEMARIE nga…
Napakaganda ang desisyon ni GRACE @Caliphman –tama si Grace, bakit naman nya isasama sa sigalot ( just to proved DISHONEST sya ng contra kay Grace ) ) ang nanay nya na piniling manahimik o nanahimik na tunay nyang INA …. DNA test to proved filliation but JUS SOLI principle can be adopted thru UN CONVENTION of 1961…@CALIPHMAN –please come back to this blog
Victinluz says
We have to admire GRACE POE @caliphman–SHE rather be disqualified on the isssue of being not a Filipino born citizen than to have a DNA test but to DISRESPECT her biological mother who choiced to live and maybe die with peace and silence . And wit DUE RESPECT also of SUSANand FPJ who brought up ,and nurtured Grace to be HONEST and LAW ABIDING NATURAL BORN FILIPINO CITIZEN…
And because of the voice of the greater Filipino People, Grace should RUN for P or VP next 2016 election.
Victinluz says
Bad news @caliphman —totoo ba na dyan daw sa inyo ngayon sa USA ay marami daw lumalabas na MAASIM na UBAS? react ka naman dyan oh.
baycas says
It is worth noting that in Panganiban’s article he mentioned that the Philippines must finally accede to and be a Party to the 1961 U.N. Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness…
To the Executive branch: “Hoy, gising!“
baycas says
While in @Oscar Franklin Tan’s column, he mentioned the need for legislation as accomplished by international best practices…
baycas says
While in @Oscar Franklin Tan’s column, he mentioned the need for legislation as accomplished by international best practices…
“Out of a sense of great legal obligation,” @Oscar Franklin Tan carefully spelled out for a State to fulfill.
To the Legislative branch: “Hoy, gising!“
leona says
Tadyak!, GISING! . . . like waking up new military recruits in camps.
. . . not ‘Hoy!’ . . .
baycas says
Hahaha…
Manresa says
I agree with the former Chief Justice and also with the earlier column of Prof. Tan.
Citizenship of foundlings could be determined by legislation (as suggested by Prof. Tan), international law (as opined by CJ Panganiban) and decision of the Supreme Court.
The delegates of the 1934 Constitutional Convention knew about the potential problems with regard to foundlings that may arise from the adoption of jus sanguinis as the sole source of Philippine citizenship. However, delegates reached a consensus that case relating to foundlings were too few to warrant the inclusion of a specific provision in the Constitution, and should be governed by statutory legislation, the principles of international law, and the decisions of this Court. Reference : Jose Aruego – The Framing of the Philippines Constitution”.
baycas says
If they only knew the draft of the 1930 Hague Convention on Certain Questions Relating to the Conflict of Nationality Law…
AND/OR
if they only knew the potential statelessness that will cause by having Children of unknown parents, Children of stateless persons or of parents whose nationality is unknown, Children who have not received their parents’ nationality here in the Philippines…
then they could have inserted a provision for such a dilemma. Well, notch one again for hindsight bias…
:-)
baycas says
…that will be caused by having…
baycas says
@Manresa,
Please look at the Nationality Law of Japan.
They responded well to the international call of preventing statelessness by creating domestic law specifically designed to address:
(1) Children born with unknown parents in their jus sanguinis territory, and
(2) Foundlings.
Walang legal presumption…very much compliant pa sa Convention on the Rights of Children.
baycas says
@ Manresa,
La Viña mentioned the CRC here, specifically Art. 7(2):
Victinluz says
Thanks @sir …done already ty
baycas says
@Victinluz,
Why didn’t they mention about the nationality by birth rights?
“Right of blood” (jus sanguinis) and “right of the soil” (jus soli) doctrines.
Rene-Ipil says
When the FPJ case was promulgated in 2004 former CJ Panganiban was on leave. That’s probably why he missed the import of the case which categorically declared that the 1935 constitution finally erased any doubt on the applicability of jus soli doctrine by adopting, once and for all, the jus sanguinis doctrine as basis of Philippine citizenship. The Supreme Court declared in the FPJ case:
“While there was, at one brief time, divergent views on whether or not jus soli was a mode of acquiring citizenship, the 1935 Constitution brought to an end to any such link with common law, by adopting, ONCE AND GOR ALL, jus sanguinis or blood relationship as being the basis of Filipino citizenship.” (emphasis mine)
Former CJ Panganiban rationalized that international law could compliment the 1935 constitution insofar as the citizenship of foundlings is concerned. This may be true if the international law does not contravene the constitution. The international law he is referring is that which grants citizenship to foundlings by jus soli or place of birth. And the Supreme Court en banc, which included him, ruled that as of 1935 Filipino citizenship would be based on blood relationship.
Manresa says
I admire your argumentation.
In the book of Jose Aruego (“The Framing of the Philippine Constitution”), the 1934 Convention delegates reached a consensus that the nationality of foundlings could be determined through legislative enactments, principles of international law and decisions of the Supreme Courts. Since the case of foundlings is a rarity, they deemed it unnecessary to include the rule in determining the nationality of foundlings in the 1935 Constitution.
You advanced the view that the international law cited by CJ Panganiban cannot determine the nationality of foundlings because the same contravenes the 1935 Constitution. if a law is enacted which determines the nationality of foundlings based on jus soli (in conjunction with international law), would such new law be also deemed constitutionally infirm as it also contravenes the Constitution? I guess so. If so, then only the decision of the Supreme Court can determine the nationality of foundlings and even if the SC rules that foundlings are natural born citizen based on jus soli, no one can declare that such ruling contravenes the Constitution.
baycas says
Panganiban mentioned the 1930 Hague Convention:
I may now think, “Thus, under the 1935 Philippine Constitution, it was spelled out that the “right of blood” should be enforced on its nationals.” [DOMESTIC]
And yet in the same 1930 League of Nations Convention (titled [Hague] “Convention on Certain Questions Relating to the Conflict of Nationality Law,” Entry into force: 1 July 1937), its Article 14 states:
So, the Hague Convention spelled out that the “right of the soil” should be enforced for special cases of unknown parentage. [INTERNATIONAL]
I guess it’s no wonder that in 1940, the Secretary of Justice back then had the opinion of conforming to the international directive regardless of ‘conflict’:
baycas says
Panganiban mentioned the 1930 Hague Convention:
I may now think, “Thus, under the 1935 Philippine Constitution, it was spelled out that the “right of blood” should be enforced on its nationals.” [DOMESTIC]
And yet in the same 1930 League of Nations Convention (titled [Hague] “Convention on Certain Questions Relating to the Conflict of Nationality Law,” Entry into force: 1 July 1937), its Article 14 states:
So, the Hague Convention spelled out that the “right of the soil” should be enforced for special cases of unknown parentage. [INTERNATIONAL]
I guess it’s no wonder that in 1940, the Secretary of Justice back then had the opinion of conforming to the international directive regardless of ‘conflict’:
Supreme Court review is inevitable…if ever this issue will reach the Supreme Court.
baycas says
The last citation is on p.70 (second paragraph) of the paper.
baycas says
May our State eventually solve this particular issue in accordance with the remedy proposed in 1950:
“Children of unknown parents, children of stateless persons or of parents whose nationality is unknown, children who have not received their parents’ nationality” are exceptions to our jus sanguinis country.
Victinluz says
We came here in your discussio not a lawyer but an ordinary citizen in order not to be IGNORANT of the LAW on Filipino Citizenship.
The Supreme Court decided the FPJ citizenship issue having a known parents of known natinality and SC used the 1935 Constitution – which adopted the principle of JUS SANGUINE .
Had it been the case of Grace POE was on the deliberation at that time with/of UNKNOWN parents , CJ Panagniban could have stated before;
however, the FRAMERS of the 1935 Constitution EXPLAINED ( nag uusap sila kung papaano at kung paano bigyan ng citizenship ang mga foundling noong 1935 bago isulat o ilathala ang ating saligang batas ng 1935 at wala tayong makita sa mga argumento nila na pabayaan ang foundling na maging stateless pag mayroon man ) that EXPRESSLY providing citizenship rules for foundling ( noong nag uusap sila maaring gusto ng ibang FRAMERs ay lagyan ng exception o diritsahang isulat din sa ating saligang batas na ang fiundling ay Filipino citizen from birh or JUS SOLI ) was UNNECESSARY ( hindi na kailangan ) since that could be determined from an International Law.. Also CJ Panganiban also stated that generally accepted priciples of International Law as part of the Law of the land , coupled by the PRIMARY CONSIDERATION on Human Rights Internationally – citizenship to every individual…..NASAAN po ang UNCONSTITUTIONAL kung gagamitin natin kay Grace ang UN CONVENTION of 1961….
akala po namin kayong mga lawyers ay pinag aralan ninyo ang mga maraming doktina ng ating saligang batas….like ” doctrine of necessary implication , liberal interpretation, harmonization of other laws with our Constitution, suppressing the mis interpretation of the constition, thet the our constituion was brief and to be interprted in favor to the opress at marami pa ….but in the end any action with ragards to FOUNDLING as they started when they were born ( as a child ) a PRAMOUNT CONSIDERATION shall be given to them..
@manresa’s comment for us none lawyers was true , kahit pala ang Supreme Court ang magsabing natural born si Grace will be also UNCONSTOTUTIONAL if the interpretation of CJ Panganiban is wrong…..
baycas says
Di nila sukat akalain na magkakaroon ngayon ng problema.
Maaaring ideklara ng Supreme Court na natural-born Filipino (NBF) ang mga foundlings. Legal presumption ito gaya ng condonation doctrine.
Kaya I predicted that Grace will be judged as NBF by the SC in order to actively portray avoidance or prevention or elimination of statelessness here in PH as far as foundlings are concerned. Kung aabot ang kaso sa SC.
Victinluz says
[email protected] sabi nilang mga lawyer’s ay kung malabo ” VAGUE ” daw ang isang nilalaman ng ating saligang batas ay ating BALIKAN ang ” INTENTION ” of the framers..
Hayan mga po ” The Framers DO NOT NEED EXPRESSLY to rule on the citizenship of foundling because it can be handled or interpreted by an INTERNATIONAL LAW …ang linaw po……sila po na gumawa ng saligang batas ang tamang patutunguhan ang kanilang mga isinulat at inilathala…. Nasaan po ang ” VAGUNESS ” nito ngayon ,, WALA NA DI PO BA…NO NEED to elevate the matter to the Supreme Court as CJ Panganiban said o kayong mga LAWYERs said—may narinig ako noon na term ng mga lawyers dito someting na ang meaning ay ay wag paulit ulit o uulitin pa , kapag ang saligang bats ay malinaw na naiitindahan na lalong lalo na kung ang mga ORDINARY CITIZEN na ang nag bibigay ng kahulugan..
Sa pagkaintindi namin na ordinaryong mamayang Filipino ay dapat na bigyan namin din ang mga kahulugan ng ating saligang batas kasi kami mismo ang gagamit/gumamit at maaaapektuhan ng mga kahulugan nito kasama ang ating kapwang kababayan…..
Victinluz says
Sa tinuran ni CJ Panganiban — kung mayroong maghahain ng reklamo laban sa Citizenship ni Grace — karapatan nila o natin iyon bilang mamayang Filipino pero by just adopting the said article of CJ Panganiban sa RTC or COMOLEC palang ay DENIED by adopting the arguments of CJ Panganiban at itoy gagamitin nila hanggang dumating sa SC…ito kung saka sakali na gagawin ni Cong. Paras ay MALIWANAG na MALIWANAG na POLITICAL HARRASMENT na . Hindi kagaya ng kaso ni BINAY na mayroon tayong batayan laban sa kanya….
baycas says
Please read my comment here which you might have missed because it underwent moderation…
http://raissarobles.com/2015/06/12/senator-grace-poe-thanks-me-for-baring-us-govt-records-that-she-dropped-her-us-citizenship-in-2012/comment-page-1/#comment-307623
@Victinluz,
I am trying to move away from “foundlings” as exemplified by GP (the past) alone. I already gave a scenario of Baby Marciano (a foundling in the present time) and a Baby Rojing (a child born here also recently but with stateless parents). How are their ‘right to a nationality’ being safeguarded by our existing laws?
Contrast our nationality laws to that of Japan which I pointed out before…
Victinluz says
Thanks sir @Baycas …COPY po.
Rene-Ipil says
Agree. Only the Supreme Court could declare a foundling as a Filipino citizen, whether natural-born or otherwise. Statutory legislations could not. And the principles of International law could not. In her dissenting opinion in FPJ case former SC Justice Carpio-Morales cited the deliberation of the 1935 constitution on citizenship particularly about foundlings and illegitimate children.
“This view is reinforced by an examination of the record of the proceedings of the 1934 Constitutional Convention, particularly the session of November 26, 1934 when the provisions on citizenship were taken up by the plenary. The proceedings of the Constitutional Convention reveals that the delegates were acutely aware of the possible problems with respect to illegitimate children and foundlings that could arise from the adoption of jus sanguinis as the exclusive source of Philippine citizenship. Nevertheless, the consensus of the Convention delegates was apparently that such cases were too few to warrant the inclusion of a specific provision in the Constitution, and should be governed by statutory legislation, the principles of international law, and the decisions of this Court. (146)”
But such Supreme Court decision would be applicable only to foundlings born under the 1935 constitution. Under the 1973 and 1987 constitutions all Supreme Court decisions regarding foundlings must follow the letter and intent of latter constitutions.
Meantime that the the Supreme Court has not determined the citizenship of foundlings, whether natural-born or otherwise, does Grace Poe remain STATELESS or is presumed a Filipino citizen?
In the Opinion of Secretary of Justice No. 277, Series of 1940, foundlings who appeared to be of ALIEN parentage was considered a national of the Philippines. It seems that there were no foundlings who appeared to be of Filipino parentage in that period of our history. In page 70 of “Nationality and International Law – Philippine perspective 1985” written by former SC Justice Irene Cortes, it says:
“Although the Philippines has not ratified the various international conventions on statelessness, a foundling whose parents were unknown but who appeared to be of alien parentage was nevertheless considered a national of the Philippines. 3. Secretary of Justice Opinion No. 277 Series of 1940.”
baycas says
Ano ang katayuan ngayon ni Baby Marciano (hypothetical child born last June 7, 2015) na Foundling Certificate pa lamang ang hawak?
Stateless ba o Pilipino?
baycas says
Ano rin ang katayuan ngayon ni Baby Rojing (new hypothetical scenario) na isinilang dito sa Pilipinas noong ika-7 ng Hulyo 2015 din?
Ang mga mgulang ni Baby Rojing ay parehong stateless.
Rene-Ipil says
Halimbawa na si Rojing ay isinilang sa Pilipinas nuong Hunyo 7, 2015 sa mga magulang na parehong NONE o kaya ay N/A ang nationality ayon sa kanyang birth certificate, e di ganun din ang kanyang nationality – NONE or N/A. Hindi tulad ni Graciano na foundling certificate ang batayan. Si Rojing ay may certificate of live birth. Kasi hindi siya pulot. Kilala ang mga magulang niya na ang nationality ay NONE o N/A ayon sa civil registry.
baycas says
So, tingin ko kasi same effect:
“Stateless.”
Unless proven otherwise by the SC esp. sa foundlings.
Dapat ipakita ng Estado ang mga safeguards in concrete terms to prevent statelessness as a whole…
General principles of international law dictates so.
Isoli dapat ang jus soli kahit doon lang sa mga piling kapapanganak lang.
Rene-Ipil says
Ewan ko. Tanungin natin ang SC. Kasi hindi natin alam kung si Graciano ay anak ni Egay, o ng isang intsik, o rohingya. Subalit tiyak ako na hindi Martian si Graciano. Tiyak yun.
baycas says
Hahaha…
Hahaha…
baycas says
Inevitable Supreme Court review if ever it reached the Supreme Court…
INTERNATIONAL “Nationality of Place of Birth” (jus soli principle) versus DOMESTIC “Nationality of Parents” (jus sanguinis principle)
NATIONALITY AND INTERNATIONAL LAW FROM THE PHILIPPINE PERSPECTIVE
Irene R Cortes and Raphael Perpetuo M. Lotilla
1. Constitutional and international factors with relevance on the law on nationality of the Philippines
baycas says
(Emphasis mine.)
baycas says
Footnotes to the citation above:
baycas says
The cited paper above written by Cortes and Lotilla was later on published in…
Note that the footnotes in the book already cited the 1987 Philippine Constitution.
Rene-Ipil says
Former CJ Panganiban justified his conclusions by citing “widespread practice” among many nations of granting nationality to foundlings.
“True, the Philippines is not a signatory or a “Contracting State” in this treaty. However, the treaty possesses the two elements of a generally accepted principle of international law because the grant of nationality to a foundling is an “established, widespread and consistent practice” of many states since 1961 to the present. Hence, it is deemed a “part of the law of the Nation.”
With due respect, I disagree. In the book “Nationality and International Law in Asian Perspective” edited by Swan Sik Ko in page 296, the effect of the 1961 UN Convention on reduction of statelessness to Asian nations is modest or not widespread. And States are exhorted to double their efforts.
“As far as customary international law is concerned, there is no rule for the avoidance of statelessness with the possible exception of discriminatory denationalizations. Even the direct effect of the 1961 Convention on Reduction of statelessness (to which the ROK is not a party) appears to be modest. States should therefore make every effort to reduce statelessness by themselves as far as possible.”
Victinluz says
@sir Baycas – IMPRESS [email protected] – all your researched and postings on this blog were all laid down NEUTRAL and HONEST.. mabuhay po kayo sir……But let us go back to what ex Chief Justice Panganiban comments- Grace was born on 1968 and does the Constitution of 1935 will guide us if there was a conflict between our National Law and the Constitution before…
” however the framers of the 1935 Constitution explained that expressly providing citizenship rulles foundlings was UNNECESSARY since that coulb be determined from International Law .”
It is safe to say that when Grace was born on 1968 , since there was NO CONFLICT between the 1935 Constitution and the UNITED NATION CONVENTION on the year 1961, GRACE was a Natural Born Filipino.
baycas says
Specific provisions in the Philippine Constitution of 1935 with some explanation DENOTING, as it turned out in years to come, the conflict from international law…
As written by Cortes and Lotilla and edited by Swan Sik Ko in Chapter 8 of the book “Nationality and International Law in Asian Perspective,”
baycas says
@Victinluz,
Beyond this whole issue of nationality, citizenship, and statelessness in an individual such as Grace Poe is the bigger responsibility that international conventions had placed on the Philippine State…
The dire need for ratifications, accesions, adoptions, legislations, amendments, etc. to safeguard human rights.
Sino ba dapat ang kakalampagin???
http://raissarobles.com/2015/06/12/senator-grace-poe-thanks-me-for-baring-us-govt-records-that-she-dropped-her-us-citizenship-in-2012/comment-page-1/#comment-307453
Victinluz says
Foreign Afffairs office , the Un Ambassador of the Philipppines for the ratification of UN CONVENTION ….Congress THRU Leon Guerrero for the Law on Foundlings that must harmonize with the UN CONVENTION…..HOY GISING kayo dyan…
Ariel Anthony Tizon says
@baycas
your point well taken.
My point of view is this. In the interpretation of laws (ie. (Treaty/ Convention v Constitution) The first rule is to find an interpretation that will harmonise both laws if there is a perceived conflict. In the case at bar, there is no conflict at all because the jus soli principle is interpreted as complimentary to the jus sanguines principle observed in the constitution.This is the best course to prevent a person from being stateless if his/her nationality is unclear under the laws of the state the person was born.
Ariel Anthony Tizon says
Although pinas is not yet a party to th 1961 convention on the reduction of stalessness one can reasonably advance the proposition that Article 1 therein is an international custom codified in the convention. Article 1 provides for the state of birth to give a stateless or a foundling its nationality at birth of the said person. The use of the word SHALL in the law impress the mandatory nature of the rule.
If we take a review of all international laws applicable to a foundling or stateless person as I did when I took my Master of Laws in UCL London, most of them simply say the right of person to a nationality ( ex in ICCPR Section 3 Art 24. Every child has a right to acquire a nationality; other provisions say (Art 14 Hague Convention on Conflict of Nationality confers the nationality of the state of birth to a foundling or stateless person). But these laws do not tell us when or which nationality the person shall possess or guarantee the nationality conferred is from birth EXCEPT Article 1 of the 1961 convention.
Under Article 1 thereof, Grace Poe acquired philippine nationality from birth. Therefore she is a natural born citizen of the phil because she did not do any act to acquire or perfect her citizenship/nationality , the very definition of a natural-born citizen under the 1973 or 1987 constitution.
Ariel Anthony Tizon says
I do apologise for any spelling or grammatical failings. Im pressed for time and using a tablet that is not speedy enough to keep with my fingers.
Ariel Anthony Tizon says
Article 2 of the 1961 Convention on the reduction of statelessness relied upon by CJ
Panganiban, affirmed by Dean La Vina, impliedly by Atty Tan is with utmost due respect, not applicable to grace poe because its grant of nationality presumed to be the nationality of the biological parents is effective or applicable to foundlings FOUND AFTER THE CONVENTION SHALL INTO FORCE IN THE CONTRACTING STATE.
As intimated earlier, Pinas is not a party to the convention. More so with the factthat the convention entered into force on 13 December 1975 a good 7 years when grace poe was born (1968) HONESTLY I HAVENT GOT THE FOGGIEST IDEA WHY THEY MISSED THIS OUT. IT IS BASIC AND A LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW SUFFICES.
Ariel Anthony Tizon says
Tsk…. shall come into force in the contracting state.
I need to use my laptop next time. This bloody tablets (sorry for the expletive) is not keeping up with the speed of my fingers..
Ariel Anthony Tizon says
Cf. Article 12 paragrah 3 1961 convention on reduction of statelessness
The provisions of article 2 of this convention SHALL APPLY ONLY TO FOUNDLINGS FOUND IN THE TERRITORY OF THE CONTRACTING STATE AFTER THE ENTRY INTO FORCE OF THE CONVENTION FOR THAT STATE.
That is crystal clear.
Ariel Anthony Tizon says
Granting in arguendo that is applicableto grace poes case, the legal proviso does not state at what period of time shall the conferred nationality attaches to the foundling. From birth, upon petition, or age of majority?
The commentators relying on this law presumed it is from birth, BUT that is still a presumption and a rigorous acrimonious debate could spring it as the alternatives are equally feasible. Dont they see that?
That is why I was completely taken aback when I read comments about art 2 being the basis of poes nationality, with due respect, of course.
Ariel Anthony Tizon says
You see, it is imperative that the international law provision granting to grace poe the nationality of the philippines must expressly state that she acquired it FROM BIRTH OR AT BIRTH to qualify her as a national born citizen of pinas.
now when she reacquired ( not retained ) her Phil citizenship under RA9225, she reverted back to her old citizenship-ergo- natural born citizenship.
as held in the case of BENGSON V CRUZ, the repatriation of cruz to philippine citizenship under RA 2630 (similar procedure to RA9225) reverted back his nationality to his former self- a natural born citizen of pinas. That is so because under the 1987 constitution controlling at the time (not 1935) there are only classes of pinas citizens, naturalised or natural born. Since cruz or grace poe for that matter reacquired pinas citizenship NOT through naturalisation laws of the phil, then cruz is a natural born citizen of pinas. so is grace poe.
That is the law as pronounced by the SC and shall persist until reversed bythe Supreme Court holding court en banc.
So if it pleases all, let me go eat my lunch its 3pm where I am and if you had the patience to read this far, thank you very much…
baycas says
“At birth, by operation of law” written in Art. 1 of the 1961 U.N. Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness. “Law” here means nationality law of a country.
We are a jus sanguinis country. There lies the conflict between international principles and that of our domestic law.
As an example of what you are pointing out about “complementary” we can refer to:
They followed the 1961 U.N. Convention on Statelessness and the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child, both international, by creating a domestic law.
Jus sanguinis country complemented by jus soli principle governing the exceptions to the jus sanguinis. The right to a nationality is granted at birth, by operation of Jaoan Nationality Law.
Baby Andrew, now a grown-up, received this Japanese birth right despite purportedly a natural-born Filipino.
baycas says
[TRIVIA]
In the 1890s, George D. Collins tried to inject jus sanguinis principle to U.S. jus soli nationality law.
He failed.
Well, SCORP is unique…for they are the final ‘orbiter’ in matters of conflict…if ever the ‘conflict’ reaches the SCORP.
Mel says
thanks for this @bayas.
—
this is good material @baycas, thanks for sharing.
—
Many Filipinos (1970s thru 1980s) DO NOT consider the 1973 Constitution as truly representative of the people’s genuine sentiments and aspirations of the Phils. since the country was under Marcos Martial Law when it was passed.
I remember in one of my Subject (PH Constitution) classes for AB Poli Sci Deg during my college heydays, my Consti professor lectured on the 1935 & then recent 1973, constitutions. And class debates always ensued, the Prof was always under the intel surveillance for ‘radical’ teachings for ‘inciting … students to think’.
Here is one brief narrative regarding that era.
Source: http://www.photius.com/countries/philippines/government/philippines_government_constitutional_frame~861.html
Bold emphasis mine
leona says
As of now, the thinking and characer of our judges in courts is so holistically nationalistic.
Strict interpretation. Rigid at that. Literally at most. All on the issue of citizenship. More so on ‘natural-born citizenship’ issues.
It will be probably be 99.999% straight-jacket rule. Immovable. Immobilized. Unfoundilized.
Always because of the rule of/on ‘loyalty.’ A foundling being gauged for ‘loyalty’ at birth. In this country. No parents identity. Unknown. So, it is ‘No Loyalty.’
Speaking of loyalty, many millions are natural-born citizens. How many are disloyal AFTER BIRTH?
Even ‘unto death’ still disloyal. Denials and Denials at that. How many commit KAWATS after BIRTH?
How many got crookedly RICH after BIRTH? How many CHEAT others AFTER BIRTH? How many STEAL and STOLE the coffers of the State AFTER BIRTH? How many? How many?
Loyalty. Nothing for foundlings it will be. No good foundling will ever be a national elected leader in this country like a President, Vice President. Maybe it will include all other high posts in the government. Why?
Becuse their birth records shows they are FOUNDLINGS. With no loyalty. Not even presumed or assumed.
In short, all ‘foundlings’ are DISLOYAL. Declared at BIRTH. It may show or not at their respective Birth Certificates. Foundling = Disloyal . . . to country of birth.
Foundling ONE pray to be born in Japan. Foundling TWO pray to be born in Pakistan. Foundling THREE pray to be born in a United Nations Agency.
Pray but not here.
pickers1368 says
This whole talk on the issue of Natural Born Citizenship is getting ridiculous if not cruel. I’m not defending the lady but for Pete’s sake she was not found in Angeles City, Olongapo or NAIA so as to let one’s imagination goes wild. I think the residency and the dual citizenship issues have more meat on it.
Sup says
Please let me have house arrest..i am SO SICK !!!!
PLEASE PLEASE I am dying …..
Huh???
http://www.sunstar.com.ph/pampanga/local-news/2015/06/13/arroyo-seek-re-election-413004
NHerrera says
lease let me have house arrest..i am SO SICK !!!! — But not so “seek” to seek re-election.
The same irrational mind that makes Binay say that he is against corruption but “evidence-based” — as if corruption unearthed against him has no evidence.
Arroyo and Binay: surely birds of a feather.
leona says
“It is already her colleagues in the House of Representatives, through a resolution, who are pushing that Mrs. Arroyo be put under house arrest instead of continuing to confine her in the hospital.’
House arrest. A resolution by her colleagues. The House of Representatives.
Bayan! That is our kind of justice for the big shots in society. Malambot ang lederato sa gobyerno natin. Walang selda sa kulunggan. Hospital detention puede. Ngayun, house detention.
Politika lang ito lahat. Sa ordinaryong suspect sa selda ka pupulutin. Justi-is lang tayo!
Just leading us to purgatoryo. Papunta impiyerno tayo. Salamat sa mga dasal ng Tao Bayan.
Salamat haring Dim . . . nyo!
czech says
At kapag nanalo pa? Anu n itatawag ntin s mga botante ng distritong nasasakupan nya? Hehehe…
moonie says
leona, he, he, he, dasal ng mga tao, lord let gloria arroyo rot in veterans. salamat po, lord, for your kind consideration at kinarma mo si arroyo. where once she enjoyed a $20K dinner in new york, now she can no longer eat top class american food, only local food and only if pureed, else she chokes. salamat po, lord, for showing her she ought to respect her body, but did not. right after operation was done to her batok at st luke’s, she was told to rest. but no less than 2weeks after operation, she took long distance flight to spain at nabinat. naumpog yata, bad air turbulence, I presume. well, damn the batok, she has to go to spain and be there in person to check on her ill gotten wealth and make sure it cannot be traced, there I’m presuming again.
at the 1st instance, she did not give chance for her batok to get well.. 2nd corrective surgery did not work, sabi. at veterans, it was noted she is functioning as well as anyone in her condition can do. only, not everyone is as good as playing the sick role as gloria arroyo is. each time she has visitors, lumala daw and condition niya, sabi ng mga visitors. time and again, palagi raw lumala ang condition niya. if that is so, she would have been dead by now, buried and eaten by worms.
gloria arroyo ought to tell amal clooney to move her butt, drop everything and forward her case.
sam says
Anti-Dynasty Bill ni koko…
So far its only the Binays who openly CONFESS that they are not in favor.
————————————————————————————————————–
obvious naman sila eh
vander says
http://www.msn.com/en-ph/news/national/binay-vows-not-to-be-a-vindictive-president/ar-BBl6dIV?ocid=SK2CDHP
does he wants to emulate the ousted TJ who was tagged as a harmonizer in his turf.
or will he outdo gma who pardoned jee barely a month after he was convicted of plunder?
sleep pinoys, do not cry, now you hear a lullaby…
leona says
Ginoo, patawarin mo siya!
‘“I want to be remembered as a president who was not vindictive, someone who will be remembered as a ‘unifying president’,” Binay said during his visit to Polilio Island on Friday.’
He is speaking as if it is the year 2023 already! “Remembered!’ ‘Who was not vindictive!’ ‘Someone who will be remembered!’ Tapos na ang pag ka Presidente nya! ha ha . . . Get’s Nyo?
‘“I was a litigation lawyer.’ So? What about it? You did not even attempt to be one before the Senate hearing. Not once! You did not even also attempt to show the evidence before the Senae hearing that it was faulty or incredible.
The only thing you did as a litigation lawyer was to DENY and continue to make DENIALS without being a litigation lawyer. A layman can do the same thing.
VP BInay, you will get back at your political opponents by showing that JPE, Bong Revilla and Jinggoy Estrada did not get fair justice but were victims of selective justice, and that political partisanship was done to them – not justice – as your sole motivation to get back at the opponents.
Diretso kayo sa tao kasi dyan ma loloko nyo ang mga tao! You will make the people of this country EAT GRASS to support you and your dynasty.
canadadry says
BINAY A NON VINDICTIVE PRESIDENT OF BOYS CAWAT OF THE PHILIPPINES!
Truly presidential, truly inspiring for his cohorts and like minded tribe, A remakable president
of Boys Cawat of the Philippines-the Philippines foremost aggrupation of Thieves.
Reelect him,he deserves it. He said he was a litigation lawyer-who became Cawat Master!
(I think Cawat in Waray means theft.)
Hail to the Chief!
yvonne says
PARANG PIYESTA!
Ang daming pinalilipad na baloon.
Iba’t-ibang kulay.
Kulay Roxas at Robledo.
Kulay Poe at Escudero.
Kulay Duterte at Marcos
Kulay Binay at Binay (walang makuhang kapares kaya sila na lang.)
Ang saya-saya pag piyesta!
Vhin AB says
Kaya kapag walang nakuha na tumakbo ay malamang si Sen. Nancy Binay ang tatakbong Vice-President ng tatay nya tutal ayaw nya sa anti-dynasty bill hahaha. Sila-sila na lang daw.
moonie says
talaga itong si binay. all he has to do is ask. maraming siyang kakilala sa nga sister cities sa visayas, sa mindanao, sa luzon, ang daming mga politicos under his thumb. innumerable. they prob’ly dont want to appear so eager to bag the 2nd top job in the country, but really would like to give a damn good try. if only binay will let them. they want to be pushed, kunwari ayaw nila. they want to be wanted, needed. binay is looking for running mate at all the wrong places.
vander says
iba’t ibang kulay.
iba’t ibang Vanderitas!
piyesta na nga!
hehehe!
neo canjeca says
Re 12.1 Joe America June 13, 2015 at 11:08 am
joeam as if you’re new to Ph. yakking and yakking is the term used by Trillanes on this kind of sickness. Can’t say for certain they don’t move their butts only their over educated tongues. Yakking and yakking sort of diminished the effectiveness of then sharp Tordesillas blog. It used to be swarming with bees with lots of positive honeys. I guess that’s the way of all good Pinoy blogs. What happened to linsanity of blogosphere?
Joe America says
My comment at 12.1
neo canjeca says
THANKS joe am. Am conscious every time I point at something, my three fingers point back at me so I try to straightened them (my fingers I mean).. It just becomes a habit, remember the handles, scrool at long paragraphs, watch for links and quotes, switch to another blog. Of course I missed lots of gems SOMETIMES. But I am content.
Sup says
Rodrigo Duterte + Bong Bong Marcos running in 2016?
Political adds…..ROBO
From the movie Robocop….
Vote us or we shoot you !!!!
:-)
Rene-Ipil says
Nanay Soleng was in the forefront of the anti-Marcos movement in Davao before the EDSA revolution. And I don’t think Duterte would let her mother turn in her grave. PDI wrote on February 5, 2012:
“Nanay Soleng was at the forefront of the Yellow Friday Movement of Davao, which helped fan the February EDSA Revolution that pushed former President Cory Aquino to power.”
Read more: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/140077/duterte-matriarch-dies-at-95#ixzz3d5QfDmoL
Sup says
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/06/14/15/duterte-marcos-2016
Perakoy says
Give us or we shoot… Dorobo!!!
vander says
DuRoBo?
Kalahari says
Duterte would become a good “P” as he can clean the country of its numerous ills on the same manner he cleaned Davao City.
Rudy’s problem is logistics which bongbong can easily provide as he is “awash with limitless cash”
Bongbong’s problem is his mother who wants him to run for “P” and erase the stigma of the family.
Their tandem is formidable as it can bring either progress or retrogression to Pinas basing on the trademark of the marcoses
BFD says
Huh?
Sup says
Exactly BDF….Huh?
Killer team… :-(
Both are very law abiding men..not…..
Bong never lied about his education..
Rodi never gave order to kill people..
This is what you want to take care over 100.000.000 humans
Don’t tell me not to blame the son for what the father did..Bong was active involved in hiding the stolen money..is still using it everyday …..
”Poor” Imelda still is Billionaire
Short memory you have kalahari..
Time for a new generation lawmakers…Try Sison (DPWH )
Best thing would be a re-election ban for all politicians now in any position and start with young bright fresh people…And have the governments bookkeeping be checked by a foreign independent accountant to take out the mistakes..
A lot of countries have their bookkeeping checked in that way..
Sup says
Very of topic…is this Ferrari buyer James Tiu THE James Tiu brother to the ”famous” Tony Binay Tiu?
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/502750/news/nation/bir-sues-trader-who-bought-and-sold-p30-m-ferrari-sans-tax-payments
leona says
Latest NBI news – ‘More cellular phones, Wi-Fi gadgets, and phone chargers were confiscated from the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) detention facility during a surprise raid headed by Justice Secretary Leila De Lima on Sunday.’
Daming nakaka lusot! How can it be remedied? Isang suggestion:
Tuwing lalapit sa detention facility PaLUIN ng PALA ng Banca sa buong katawan!
Sunod ng suggestion: Fully NAKED yun lalapit sa detention facility
Tatlo: Public view Rectal Examination sa mga lalapit sa detention facility
Siguro it will stop or restrain PALUSOT of these gadgets.
Sup says
”Fully NAKED”
And you will apply for guard in the male facility… :-)
baycas says
Naked?
“Baka lumindol”…ang hiyaw ni Mang Gani…
kalakala says
from abs-cbn: BEST – Binay- Jinggoy Estrada
“Hindi na Erap-Binay, Binay-Erap na. ‘Yun, ang tawag doon ‘BEST’. Alam mo anong ‘BEST’? BINAY-ESTRADA,” the vice president said.
Estrada didn’t find it the best idea. His answer made a lot of sense: “I am done being Vice President. I’ve been there.”
Victinluz says
[email protected] …the news written by Dean Tony La Vina – was on the RAPPLER news today June 15.. Maybe you can copy paste for us here in the BLOG.. NOT JUST GRACE BUT US — title
baycas says
This ( http://raissarobles.com/2015/06/12/senator-grace-poe-thanks-me-for-baring-us-govt-records-that-she-dropped-her-us-citizenship-in-2012/comment-page-1/#comment-307750 ) was already hitched on a comment of mine still awaiting moderation this afternoon.
baycas says
@Victinluz,
May I ask…
Why didn’t they mention about the nationality by birth rights?
“Right of blood” (jus sanguinis) and “right of the soil” (jus soli) doctrines.
baycas says
@Victinluz,
You may also read the opinion of lawyer Ariel Anthony A Ticzon here:
http://raissarobles.com/2015/06/09/us-government-records-sen-grace-poe-dropped-her-american-citizenship-in-2012/comment-page-1/#comment-307574
…and my responses to him.
Thanks a lot, my friend!
WECANDOIT says
off topic ito. i frequently go to jejomar’s facebook to see and learn what he is selling and what his voters are buying. it is impressive to me how the myth lives on that binay “made” makati and that. his voters continue to harbor the fantasy that he can make their place as prosperous as makati. i am reminded that ms raissa herself described binay as a very good manager with the implication (made by her?) that binay’s good management made makati what it is today. i believe that what we need is an honest to goodness article in the style of ms raissa robles demonstrating with actual documents, facts and figures the fallacy of the myth. maganda sana kung pagkatapos ay isalin sa tagalog nung marunong managalog.
baycas says
Anticipating imminent arrest
Jojo forms his Team BEST
They will campaign while detained
Sympathy votes to be obtained
Though persecution they’ll still cry
Their political careers about to die
baycas says
http://www.ellentordesillas.com/2015/06/14/best-binay-jinggoy-estrada-in-2016/
leona says
‘the bag of kickbacks [money] through the car windows.’ says Ruby Tuason St.Wt.
‘“After receiving the money [P1.5 million], I called up Senator Estrada and told him ‘I have money for you.’ I went to see him in his house in Greenhills, San Juan… I gave him the bag of money.’ says Ruby Tuason St.Wt.
‘After that, Tuason said she delivered to Estrada’s house another P4.2 million kickbacks’ says Ruby Tuason St.Wt.
‘she remembered that Estrada earned P19 million in commissions all in all.’ says Ruby Tuason St.Wt.
. . . Natural-born citizen. Not a ‘foundling.’
:-)
leona says
‘Tuason said she personally went to Estrada’s Senate office and delivered a bag of kickbacks. She said Estrada’s aide from his office helped her carry the bag.’ says Ruby Tuason St.Wt.
borne in the house; borne in the senate office and borne through car windows!
What a natural birth of kickback money!
:-)
leona says
Another one –
‘former Presidential Commission on Good Government (PCGG) Chairman Camilo Sabio asked the Supreme Court (SC) on Monday to stop the Ombudsman from implementing its order of his perpetual disqualification from public office.’
this is natural-outsbirth!
it’s either a senatong or PCGiGong! What’s happening to our country mga Henerales?
leona says
‘“Aalisin ko ang mga sige pa rin sa graft and corruption ngayon pero hindi naman si Pangulo kasama diyan (I will remove officials who are still involved in graft and corruption but the President is not part of that),” Binay said in a press briefing at the Luneta Hotel in Manila.’ VP Binay
Binay said he will not be a vindictive President by getting back at his opponents. Now he says ‘I will remove them except the President.’
Who are they / them? If not his political opponents! Isn’t it that ‘they & them’ are involved in graft and corruptions and that they are his political opponents!
He forgot about it not to get back at them.
Short memory na! Malapit na. Wag na Wag na!
Martial Bonifacio says
The irony when Binay attacks the platform of Pres. Pnoy “Daang Matuwid” napaghahalataan talaga na ang current na Bise-Presidente ay may BALUKTOT na pag-iisip.
VP Binay: I thought there’d be clean politics in Daang Matuwid
Source: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/504494/news/nation/vp-binay-i-thought-there-d-be-clean-politics-in-daang-matuwid
Martial Bonifacio says
Off-topic:
‘Lupang Hinirang’, inawit ng PGC sa gitna ng girian sa Batanes
Link: http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/focus/06/15/15/lupang-hinirang-inawit-ng-pgc-sa-gitna-ng-girian-sa-batanes
Nagmatigasan ang Philippine Coast Guard at Taiwan Coast Guard matapos ideklara ng Taiwan Coast Guard na teritoryo nila ang ilang bahagi ng Batanes.
BFD says
Thanks for their courage, Taiwan’s bullying was prevented. Sinong maniniwala na hindi nila alam kung nasaan sila? Much more sophisticated yung ship nila against our Coast Guard, tapos di nila alam na over na sila territory nila.
Buti di kasama ni Philippine Coast Guards si Farinas,…. Palusot para di mapahiya….
moonie says
yong gizmos ng taiwanese ship are made in china. default niyan 9 dash mile at sinangkop ang batanes.
BFD says
Grabe naman, nasa Pacific side?
duquemarino says
I was teary eyed when I heard them sang “Lupang Hinirang”
Vhin AB says
A case of a weakling being bullied by a more powerful force. Kelan pa tayo matututo na huwag tanggapin ang ganitong klase na pagkapahiya dahil hindi kayang ipagtanggol ang sarili. Bulok na mga kagamitan. Walang puwersa at panay hingi lang ng saklolo sa US at UN.
Kunsabagay, sanay na tayo na sinasakop at pinaglalaruan ng ibang bansa habang ang pinag uusapan ay pulitika at showbiz. Kailan pa tayo maaawa sa sarili at magsimulang magkaisa sa ganitong paulit ulit na panganib?
Parekoy says
Aquino’s Dilemma
Do you remember PDAF scandal? What about the DAP one which will really nail the president for its unconstitutionality? Aquino’s popularity was diminished but after a month forgotten.
Do you remember Mamasapano? It is another testament of Aquino’s ineptness in leadership.
Do you remember when a lot of pundits were counting his anointment as a death sentence? What about the results of the surveys which showed his unpopularity because of his booboos, oooopss that is meant for children doing stupid things, rather failure of command in the execution and handling the results which disappointed a lot of people?
A couple of months ago, a lot of politicians are distancing themselves from Aquino for the Mamasapano Debacle. But Aquino has a cat like life. He resurrected after that!
And he was back with vengeance and even stubbornly went ahead with trying to pass the BBL with extreme urgency for he knows that the door of opportunity is closing. RailRoadriguez tried his best. Even BID was tapped for fundraising for to pay off the representathieves to hurdle the committee and some reserve for the rest of the pigs. But at the end of the day, the pigs in the lower house can only do so much for the hyenas at the Senate did not have their share and they are raising the alarm to shake down Aquino to offer them something in return, a larger share than their lowlife porcine relatives. So BBL is for the moment has some troubles and needs repair. One is letting go of the provision of opting in, but the real problem is that LP knows that passing BBL is like wiping half the votes that their bet should get for it is polarizing and the A, B & C demographics are divided in passing the BBL in a rush manner, so the decision for a reasonable pause.
With the major failure Aquino committed, we should expect that any Presidential Candidate would consider him a leper but Politics is indeed the Art of the Possible!
LP did not abandon their President but an outsider Poe who crucified Aquino in the Senate Report is so flattered being considered to in the Administration ticket! Even Binay who is the whipping boy of the administration is still hopeful to be anointed even though he knew his chance is only 0.01 % and for that Binay is the quintessential optimist. Binay can’t hide what he is actually hoping for that his solicitation of Aquino’s support is not limited to being officially declared but without shame declared Aquino can support him covertly, as 2016 NoyBi redux! Escudero knew being anointed as VP in the Administration ticket is as difficult of winning the lottery but he has other plans. He is there as a troublemaker. He would like to sell Poe-Chiz as unbreakable package, which really suits him and Poe, being naïve and inexperienced, is willing to entertain having a partner who is a serial traitor!
Aquino is challenged to choose who among the Presidentiables worth his blessing. He knows what he needs from them and the solicitors know what they are expected to do for the Aquino if ever there will be attempts to resurrect DAP issues and investigate Aquino’s culpability!
Aquino can offer these things:
1. Money
2. Machinery
3. Halo effect for Aquino remains popular for his selective Tuwid na Daan
4. Innoculation from serious lawsuits (If Poe is anointed, she has a better chance hurdling the Citizenship and Residency Issue, otherwise she is most likely disqualified for the same issues.)
5. Assurance that their votes are counted
6. A bonus that votes are bloated, courtesy of Hocus-PCOS
Aquino has a dilemma between choosing Poe or Roxas and the egging of his sisters to support Binay covertly:
Poe is popular but an outsider, inexperienced, mired with legitimate illegitimacy of her citizenship and residency, and questionable loyalty for Poe as President will most likely go to the dark side and free Jinggoy, Bong, Enrile, Gloria and not pursue the cases against the Binays for Eraps tentacles will be all over Poe’s administration.
Roxas on the other hand is a victim of well-planned demolition which started when Escudero betrayed him. From paid manipulated surveys to paid columnists and reporters who are tasked to diminish Roxas in every possible opportunity. Binay knows that he can’t inflict damage in Roxas integrity when it comes to corruption since Roxas is not implicated to any, but he knows that he can attract Roxas in his pretensions of trying to project what he is not his true character, thus the memes of Martilyo, Kargador, Pick-up, and many inane and petty characterization far away from being corrupt! Roxas numbers in manipulated surveys are surely not going to pick-up for the questions are engineered for him to lose. Once Roxas is anointed by Aquino and declared officially his candidacy as President, the field narrows. There will be clarity of the differences, the platforms and vision being offered. Roxas’ not being implicated in any corruption, experience, machinery, his investment in DILG, and the perception that he is the best person to continue the Aquino’s Tuwid na Daan will be stark contrast to against his opponents. Roxas numbers will pick-up a bit just enough to justify if he is declared a winner in a plurality.
Binay on the other hand will be down in the pits and will hold a reasonable amount of votes from his captured Makati well-fed-of-cake constituents and the poor who are not informed in anyway of his corruptions which will be a third half of his original admirers for a third will go for Poe and a third will go for Roxas (Assuming he is the anointed) courtesy of LP Machinery and the DILG projects manna which the local leaders happily received and expected to deliver for Roxas by hook or by crook. Binay will be lucky if he is not yet charge of malversation or worst plunder before or during the campaign period, but it is unavoidable for the master plan of LP will never be viable without that element of serious and believable charges. Now that AMLC has the goods with Baloloy and Limlingan in hiding with Billions of pesos of Binays’ ill-gotten wealth entrusted to them they are lucky if they are still alive. Another thorn in their Game of Thrones, Binay edition, is the possible passing of Anti-dynasty law, which will chop their influence greatly for they have to choose among themselves who to remain in power. There is even a possibility of murder in the family if Abi is not given the place she deserves for she knows that she is the smartest among the three and can’t take it that her stupid sister is reaping the rewards she does not deserve! Binay will be extra-crispy toasted once this election is over and he knows that his best exit strategy is Poe being Aquino’s anointed for Binay has great chance of negotiating with her rather than Roxas who will enjoy hauling the Binays in prison and throwing away the keys to melt it in a foundry!
Aquino’s main intent is to save himself to any troubles once his tenure ends. Tuwid na Daan ‘s continuity is a bonus but if he thinks his anointed candidate will have a great odds to lose then he does not give a damn if Tuwid na Daan continues as long as he saves his ass. But for now that LP explained to him that whoever he chooses will be the winner for all the holes are plug and they have the nuclear option of Hocus-PCOS, there is no way that Aquino’s candidate will lose. In closing, the LP honchos made a very convincing plea:
“Why give the power to someone who is an outsider and you can’t trust while we in our party proven to you through thick and thin that we are with you, we planned and worked vigorously for the continuity of our party’s hold to power in the next six years and possibly another six after that. Please think carefully that what is at stake is your legacy, the continuity of the Tuwid na Daan, the stability of our nation, and the poise economic progress that we are to offer, and you will just offer on a silver platter our hard work to an outsider who has a greater possibility of biting us back?”
A great question indeed!
Parekoy
06-15-2015
Percival says
How could Pnoy trust Poe! She owes Pnoy her political baptism thru her MTRCB appointment and later her ADOPTION in the LP senatorial ticket in 2013. Yet, while being silent on binay mega corruption, crucified Pnoyy in her Mamasapano report even suggesting impeachment. I think even the exchanges between her and the binay camp lately was just for show and scripted. I believe her loyalty is to Erap and cohorts. I don’t trust her at all.
Percival says
How could Pnoy trust Poe! She owes Pnoy her political baptism thru her MTRCB appointment and later her ADOPTION in the LP senatorial ticket in 2013. Yet, while being silent on binay mega corruption, crucified Pnoyy in her Mamasapano report even suggesting impeachment. I think even the exchanges between her and the binay camp lately was just for show and scripted. Her association with escudero, erap ongpin et al makes her commitment to honest governnance suspect.
Parekoy says
Agree with you, Poe is too risky to entrust the presidency.
baycas says
@Percival,
Did the 20-senator-signatory Mamasapano report ever reach the plenary?
Kawing-kawing ang relasyon ng mga politiko…lantaran man o pailalim.
Ano pa kaya ang pinag-usapan ni Poe at PNoy bukod sa tutorial on “How to evade questions from journos?”
Joe America says
That’s an excellent question. What happened to that political demolition job otherwise called an investigation in aid of legislation.
baycas says
From Amita Legaspi…
More from: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/505302/news/nation/grace-poe-senate-panel-report-on-mamasapano-clash-won-t-be-tackled-in-plenary
Bert says
Agree to all except the Hocus-PCOS part. Pres. Noynoy made a promise to Binay that the only help he can do is a clean 2016 election. We all know that the president seldom breaks his words. The LP would sure know that they can’t count on Pres. Noynoy agreeing to rigging the election to make Roxas win, without which Roxas will surely lose. A rigged 2016 election will destroy whatever legacy the president has nurtured in his six years reign as president.
What should the president do? No other option but to go for the sure winner.
Parekoy says
Aquino agreed before of rigging the 2013 elections with the unbelievable 60-30-10 pattern accross almost all regions no matter whose bailiwick it is, which benefitted his allies in the Senate and the concession on Nancy and JV joining the pool.
PNoy can promise Binay anything now but PNoy is pragmatic and not lose a sleep for one more engineered election results.
As I mentioned, LP is an evil genius, and UNA are death scared for they know the game and the same personalities of magicians are still hyperactive for both sides are fighting for its survival. This is a winner take all election and LP does no want to lose.
Porky Drilon is scared stiff hat if LP lost, he will be the first to be skewered like a roasted pig and the Filipino Talleyrand is always on top of his game.
Aquino knows that whoever he picks is a sure winner anyway, all he needs to narrow it down is who can he trust of his freedom? Reality is that Poe is too risky to be entrusted with his freedom!
leona says
Parekoy wrote: – ‘Poe is popular but an outsider, inexperienced, mired with legitimate illegitimacy of her citizenship and residency’ One of the interesting, if not the MOST, interesting and suspense topic that will be here up to April , 2016!
Poe is now ‘news worthy person.’ National. Her public statements are of general knowledge to almost every Filipino interested. She gave a lot of public statements, such as follows:
1.) “I would rather have that issue than plunder or anything else to defend myself,” said Poe.” [ re – A recent Social Weather Stations (SWS) survey shows Poe nearly neck and neck with Vice President Binay.]
2. ” I didn’t have to go through a special procedure to acquire my citizenship,” Poe said. ” [ re – Natural-born citizens are those who are citizens of the Philippines from birth without having to perform any act to acquire or perfect their Philippine citizenship.]
3. “”Ang sasabihin ba natin, isang foundling, kailangan ba nating limitahan ang pagkakataon nito sa buhay sapagkat hindi natin alam ang tunay na magulang? Para sa akin, siguro tao na ang magdedesisyon nyan,” Poe said.” [ re ‘When that time comes, Poe will be ready’ ]
And the news report quoted Poe that – “Poe said she hopes to find the truth someday, not so she can run for President, but so she can finally put closure to this chapter in her life.”
The truth. What is the truth?
Sen. Poe as having been found as ‘infant was brought to the public hospital.’ What happened there at the hospital? Was a birth certificate form filled up in that hospital for the infant? Where is it, a copy of that?
‘Jaime Cardinal Sin, then Archbishop of Jaro, baptizes baby Grace’ photo and news report.
In Jaro where Baby Grace was found it is a place – “THERE WERE NO SECRETS in Jaro back in the sixties,” long-time resident Marilen Montinola Locsin said of the district in Iloilo which wealthy sugar barons once called home. “Jaro was a place where everybody knew each other. Either we were friends or relatives. Everybody knew what was going on during that time.”
No secrets. Except one secret – “But there is one secret that remains to be told, and the story begins at the Jaro Cathedral before dawn on September 3, 1968.” The secret of Baby Grace [Sen. Poe]
There will still be many questions, great questions, indeed. >b>Sen. Poe will be ready.
leona says
Link of some news quotes –
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/06/02/15/foundling-named-grace
baycas says
Gaya ni Baby Marciano, mayroon siyang Foundling Certificate.
Nguni’t sa kaniya napalitan na ito…
According to her, following jus soli doctrine, she already acquired Philippine citizenship.
Si Baby Marciano, pag wala pang nag-adopt hanggang sa pagtanda, makakakuha lang ng travel documents kung may Philippine passport ang naka-found sa kaniya…atbp…
The grant of Philippine passport to Baby Marciano is hinged on the passport of the founder and NOT on the foundling certificate ALONE. Paano kung patay na ang founder at walang naiwang sariling passport?
Bakit hindi na lang ituring ang foundling certificate gaya ng sa ordinaryong birth certificate ng isang anak na kilala ang magulang?
Sa adopted, naroon din sa passportdotcomdotph ang requirements. Kay GP kasama ang tatlong nabanggit niya sa interview.
leona says
Am I or others made to have that belief that – ” Kaya yung court order pa ang nagsilbing basehan ng birth certificate ko.” – has information that she is a ‘natural-born citizen?’ It looks like her statement is to that effect.
Suspense. In due time it will be known.
baycas says
Sa step 2 na ba siya naka-acquire ng Philippine citizenship?
Si Baby Marciano (born and found June 7, 2015) na foundling certificate lang ang meron (Step 1), may awtomatiko na bang may Philippine citizenship na?
baycas says
Step 2 finished after about 6-7 years later as a result of adoption proceedings.
May be contrary to…
Incidentally, in the 1961 U.N. Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness the operative definition of “by operation of law” denotes automaticity like when Baby Andrew, an abandoned child in a hospital, readily got his Japanese nationality at birth (#50 in the previous blog post).
Rene-Ipil says
” Ito yun, yung una ay foundling certificate.”
Wala pang Certificate of Foundling (OCRG Form 101) nuong 1968. Exposed child ang tawag nuon sa foundling ngayon. Section 5 of the Civil Registry Law of 1930 deals with registration and certification of birth. It also requires the finder of an exposed child to merely report the matter to the local civil registrar.
“In the case of an exposed child, the person who found the same shall report to the local civil registrar the place, date and hour of finding and other attendant circumstances.”
OCRG AO No. 1, series of 1993 or the IRR of the Civil Registry Law of 1930 provided a NEW rule requiring accomplishment of a Certificate of Foundling to be accomplished by the finder.
“Rule 29. Requirements for Registration of Foundling. No foundling shall be recorded in the civil register unless the following requirements are complied with:
a) certificate of Foundling (OCRG Form No. 101, Revised January 1993) accomplished correctly and completely; (N)”
Si Graciano ay ipinanganak kamakailan lang. Samantalang si Grace Poe ay ipinanganak nuon pang 1968. Kaya tiyak ko na may Certificate of Foundling si Graciano. Subalit hindi ko tiyak kung totoo ang sinabi ni Grace na may Certificate of Foundling siya.
baycas says
Thanks.
NHerrera says
PHILSTAR — UNA: Abad has P581 B for LP campaign fund (June 16, 2015 – 12:00am)
——————————————————————————-
MANILA, Philippines – Budget Secretary Florencio Abad has concealed some P581 billion in the proposed national budget for next year intended for the ruling Liberal Party’s campaign for the 2016 elections, United Nationalist Alliance (UNA) interim president and Navotas City Rep. Tobias Tiangco said yesterday.
——————————————————————————
MY TAKE
– Ingit lang si Binay — even with the unfrozen amounts in his banks, and those of his family and dummies Limlingan, Baloloy and Tiu — hindi aabot ang kanilang pondo kumpara sa pinag-wawagwagan nilang pondo sa kabila;
– free advertisement for those in Binay camp to jump ship — it is greener and there are more goodies on the other side. Hahaha.
– Is this another case of Tiangco putting his shoe in his mouth?
Joe America says
Well, maybe VP Binay can hold hearings and see who shows up. Otherwise, without facts, we can only return to Tiangco his own words. Political attack with no merit whatsoever.
Usually these kinds of claims take legitimate expenses and label them pernicious. I’ll calmly await the details.
leona says
If and when Tiangco now prefers to be quiet he must have sewed up his lips with the shoe laces of his shoes!
he he :-)
balayang says
TIBAY, Gyud ☺
yvonne says
Kaya meron akong ginagawang research tungkol kay Abad para matuwa naman si victinluz.
LOL!
Vhin AB says
Sige @Yvonne para di ka napapagbintangan hahahaha
Kamison says
@yvonne, naisip mong check upin ang Birth Certificate (NSO) ni VP JJ Binay?
sabi niya eh adopted din daw siya, anyone verified if his biological parents were registered in his Birth Certificate (BC)? O iyong adopted parent(s (halimbawa, Tiyo)?
“E kasi ako, inampon din lang ako ng tiyo ko. Mabuti pa nga si Mareng Grace, gumanda ang buhay n’ya [sa pagkakaampon n’ya]. ‘Yong pagkakaampon sa’kin e ako ang namamalengke, kumukuha ng kaning baboy. [Kaya] hindi si Jojo Binay ang nangdudusta sa mga nang-aapi” – Vice President Jejomar Binay.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/696338/vp-binay-like-grace-poe-i-was-adopted
yvonne says
@Kamison,
Binay was speaking figuratively. Di na kayo nasanay kay Binay. Kung ano ang “in” at the time duon din siya.
Nang panay ang papuri kay Lew Kew Khew ng Singapore, sumingit si Binay at siya raw ang “Lew Kew Khew” ng Makati.
Nang maging “hot” yung usapan sa pagkaampon ni Grace, ampon din daw siya.
Nang maging mainit yung usapan laban sa corruption, lalabanan nya rin daw ang corruption pag naging presidente siya.
Siguro pagmeron magsabi na ang dapat maging presidente ay yung matangkad at maputi, marahil ay sasabihin din ni Binay na matangkad at maputi siya. LOL!
vander says
at “kamukha” rin niya ang pope.
basta may credit na maaambos, pop-up agad.
may pop-up item na sikat sa baguio.
pwede kayang siya ang gawing icon?
Atin says
I think AMLC didn’t find all of Binay’s dummies. Lots of funds still sleeping. May dummies get greedy and abrogate all contracts with Binay.
Parekoy says
Aquino’s Legacy
1. Gutierrez forced to resign.
2. Corona impeached but no closure on his ill-gotten wealth.
3. Gloria jailed but ends up in hospital arrest and now is poised to allowed a better condition in house arrest. She is guilty of cheating FPJ in the elections with the help of Garci. She is also facing plunder charges that is worse than murder for plunder kills thousands and even punishes the unborn for the effects of plunder is like a radioactive bomb that lingers even after the detonation and fallout.
4. Enrile, Jinggoy, Bong, and Napoles accidentally nabbed because of Luy’s whistleblowing and the big fishes of the opposition are convenient sacrifice at the altar of selective Tuwid na Daan. This is halfway victory, for the rest of the administration allies are not subjected to the same urgency of indicting them and those who are charged are with weak cases and could easily be whitewashed or weakened to be acquitted.
5. BBL almost made it but fate is testing Aquino’s persistence if indeed he wanted a worthwhile long lasting solution to Mindanao or just for the sake of being considered as a candidate for Nobel Prize and by appeasing the Malaysians, Americans, and the MiLF endangered the stability of our fragile nation. More than half of our countrymen are opposed to passing the BBL, and a law without the support of the people is self-defeating for it creates more instability and arouse divisiveness, which ironically to end the as the aim of BBL. Better, let the next President handles this hot potato and consider offering it in the plebiscite to ask the permission of the Filipino People.
What the Filipino people support that Aquino should accomplish:
1. Pass his campaign promise FOI bill into law. This is a landmark law and a gateway to real lasting reforms for transparency will minimize blatan corruption and a barrier to those who would like to make a fast buck at the expense of our treasury.
2. Pass Anti-dynasty Bill into law. It is almost thiry years since the 1987 constitution paved the way for our lawmakers to eradicate dynasties for the framers then knew the destabilizing and retrogressing effects of medieval way of governance through mini-fiefdoms and virtual dictatorships, but even wity initial pronouncements of support of Anti-Dynasty Law reality sets in that Aquino flounders on this cancer cure for it does not discriminate against bad and good dynasties, and obviously his Aquino Clan as well as the Cojuangcos are the first ones affected and eventually loosen their grip in thier fiefdoms!
3. Make Marcoses pay for their past sins of human rights abuse and plundering our nation. And adding insult to injury they are back and found their lost power courtesy of Former President Ramos and the passive Erap, Gloria and surprisingly the inaction on the part of Aquino. Aquino chose to prioritize the PDAF thieves rather than to recover Marcos loot and prosecution of his family. He could do both though but he chose to ignore the Marcoses crimes!
I am not diminishing Aquino’s accomplishments but passing FPI and Anti-Dynasty Laws will be the defining moment of his presidency for it will paved way to a better and real Tuwid na Daan! if he sieze this moment and prioritized these bills to become laws then Filipinos are more grateful and he will live forever in our hearts for he is the President who made it happen for better Philippines!
Parekoy
06-15-2015
Parekoy says
I also posit that FOI and Anti-Dynasty laws will make BBL inutile for those two will eradicate the grip of the warlirds in Mindanao and FOI will serve its constituents to have a transparent accouting of their allocated budgets and minimize corruption, and pave the way to delivery of per specifications infrastructures, inventory of recipients of government social services, effective medicines, and economic programs have a high chance of success in benefitting the communities. When the government is seen working for the people, insurgency declines and opportunistic leaders of rebels are challenged to propose a better alternative from fighting the government who is seen doing its job by the people it is sworn to serve. Injustices are prevened and minimized and takes away the recruitment reasons for joining the insurgency.
These twin powerful laws are the prescriptions to the cancer which our country has been suffering for almost half a century!
Vhin AB says
Add this @Parekoy: Build a Martial Law Museum and put the list of murdered, imprisoned and missing people during our very own Dark Age.
Parekoy says
Ala -Holocaust Museum!
Great idea!
The Cambodians have their kiling fields and the enormous numbers of skulls serves as a reminder of never again!
If we have the Martial Law Museum, I doubt the Marcoses has the courage to come back and ran for public seats. Cory missed her opportunity; Ramos never entertained the idea for he was one of the Berdugosof Martial Law; Erap a Marcos Loyalist is happy to welcome back the entire clan of the dictator; Gloria did not even consider it and her entire family would like to topple Maarcos record in plundering our nation and she succeeded for not even a cent is recovered; Aquino disappointed his parents for the opportunity of a powerful president to review and revive tompursue justice and recovery of more loots was ineptly ignored!
So yes, we better ask our Presidentiables about this important symbols of past oppressions in the dar ages of Martial Law!
Vhin AB says
If u visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, they’ll give you a small card with a name, picture and some info of the person who was a victim of Nazi.
We can definitely do that. That has nothing to do with politics anymore because it’s a dark period of our history as a nation that we don’t wanna go through again.
Parekoy says
I brought my family there and showed my kids the limitless brutality and evil of men towards their perceive subordinates. It was moving and a life lesson for my kids. We also went to Martin Luther King, Jr Memorial at DC.
We toured the Capitol Building, went to the White House, then off to the Mall, and walked leisurely towards Lincoln Memorial. The following day we went to visit JFK’s tomb at Arlington Cemetery.
kalakala says
in poland as well. they even have memorial posts in every historical place.
philippines will have the same if these presidentiables will start constructing such museums instead of wasting the peoples’ money by vote buying. why i said peoples’ money? the binays -no need to go further, if and only if the queso de bola will run- imho ongpin will be his biggest contributor. ongpin is in hot seat because of boy scout issue, among other
Kalahari says
Pressing for the passage of FOI & anti-dynasty bills are like asking the moon to leave the evening sky. Only legislators with unstable minds will fight for their approval and allow the swords of Damocles to hang over their dirty heads. Nevertheless, nothing is wrong with dreaming.
PNoy lost the last chance to put behind bars the mastermind behind the grizzly murder in the tarmac which the people expected him to do – and shows his weakness and indecisiveness to confront the architect of his father’s murder.
Parekoy says
Baka makapasa kasi
unstable daw si PNoy diba?
Calling Pedrosa ,nasan na yung psych report?
:)
O ayan may pag-asa na ano Kalahari?
Parekoy says
I brought my family there and showed my kids the limitless brutality and evil of men towards their perceived subordinates. It was moving and a life lesson for my kids. We also went to Martin Luther King, Jr Memorial at DC.
We toured the Capitol Building, went to the White House, then off to the Mall, and walked leisurely towards Lincoln Memorial. The following day we went to visit JFK’s tomb at Arlington Cemetery.
DC is one of the best places to visit and appreciates America’s story of democracy.
pickers1368 says
I’m sure you took them to Smithsonians as well. What I missed was that site in the National Mall where Forrest Gump and Jenny embraced amid the applause of the hippies. he he he.
Parekoy says
Yup we have been to Smithsonian and the Art Galleries. Their collections are superb and must be absorbed and enjoyed for the experience is priceless.
Which reminds me that to go into those establishments, they are all free which whenever I went to MET and Museum of Natural History at NYC, it was expensive!
Been to Atlanta too and went to Dr. King’s place as well as the customary visit at CNN and Coca Cola.
Forrest Gump’s and Jenny’s place I like, then in SFrancisco at the Marina, Bubba Gump was a nice place to eat and reminisce Gump’s Bubba!
ricelander says
I do not necessarily agree with you with your take on the Marcoses and Martial Law but I agree with you on the Museum. I wonder why Cory did not have one built. Is there no such a plan with PNoy? As long as data gathering is objective and stripped of politics, it should benefit future historians and everybody trying to review history.
There are supposedly at most 75,000 victims. Let us have their names and circumstances one by one, the crime committed on them detailed. Is there an apprehension they could not identify as many? Rene Saguisag loves to point to the 10,000 so-called human rights violations victims who won their case in Hawaii against the Marcos estate. That one at least is easy. Go to SELDA. They have the list of individual names though SELDA itself might not allow each individual cases reviewed. The Commission responsible for processing reparation claims supposedly has received about 25,000 claimants. All these should be documented and placed in that Museum.
ricelander says
There were also thousands of declassified documents relating to Martial Law that were turned over by the military to the Commission of Human Rights c/o Etta Rosales. Why to Etta Rosales and not to a library, i do not know. But these could form part of the Museum.
Tambay says
Love this idea!
vander says
hurrrraaay! @parekoy.
yes to a museum, and if possible, one that includes blown-up photos with their names of Phl great plunderers!
i happened to see one school that exhibits the greatest fraudsters of the world topped by b. madoff.
it will be such a good reminder to each pinoys esp. to our bootantes…
Parekoy says
It is Vhin AB we need to thank for he brought this great idea, which is long overdue!
Pickers1368 says
I’m all for the Martial Law museum. Excellent idea! Once the PDAF rulings are out (with guilt verdict of course), it should also have a wing for it, complete with the anatomy of how the plunder was perpetrated.
Let the campaign begin. i am willing to donate.
Parekoy says
The fund for the Martial Law and Human Rights Museum should be taken from the recovered ill-gotten wealth of the Marcoses.
Philippine History books should have a great length of discussions on this episode of our history and provide our students a balanced take on the issues and its aftermath about :
1. Dictatorship,
2. Insurgency,
3. Injustice,
4. Poverty
5. Overpopulation and RH Law
6. Oligarchy and its grip on our economy and wide gap of distribution of wealth
7. Governance,
8. People Power
9. Poitical Dynasty and Patronage Politics
10. Catholic Church Influence
11. INC, El-Shaddai, Jesus is Lord and other ifluential for sale endorsements
12. Internet and Social Media influence in shaping the minds of the Filipinos
13. The detrimental effects of Artistas and Popular Celebrities in running for office
14. Print, TV and Radio Media in their unprofessionalism and lackasaidal efforts of digging for truth is hindering the nations political maturity and wrong priority of focus instead of subjects worth promoting financial education and entrepreneurship.
15. Sabah, our land grabbed from us…How our colonizers shaped our world.
16. Contested reefs in the West Philippine Seas and China Bullying in historical perspective.
17. How to deal with our American Big Brother and a delicate dance with China to maximize our benefits derived from our relationships with them
18. Others.
Vhin AB says
Exactly @Parekoy. I just hope that the Martial Law Museum will happen during our time.
Vhin AB says
Maybe as the name implies ‘Martial Law Museum’, will concentrate in the period from the declaration up to the time that it wad lifted para walang speculations or accusations.
Kung sino man ang mga nakulong, pinatay at mga nawawala dahil sa Martial Law ay dapat maipakita dito. Kabilang syempre ang mga ilang pangyayari that led to it’s declaration and the after it was lifted that is based on record and not just insinuations para hondi mahaluan ng politika.
Parekoy says
Correct dapat factual.
But I mentioned the History Book that needs to be revised since there was only a small portion where Martial Law is discussed in the textbooks. This does not help our new generation for they are unaware of our nightmare experience in those dark age of Martial Law.
The proof of this apathy and ignorance is staring us annoyingly: Bobong Marcos is a Senator and now is close to clinching the Presidency or VP, Imee is governor, and Imelda is a Congresswoman! Then the Marcos relatives and the Romualdezes are all over and Political Dynasty be damned!
If the Jews did have the Nazi Hunters why can’t we have our own Marcos and Human Rights Criminal Hunters or I say Vigilantes?
Vhin AB says
I agree about the revisions and corrections of history books. The Dep. Ed. should teach our children about the horrors of the and horrible period in a corect way with photos and videos as well.
A big step in educationg our people is by building a Martial Law museum that will become a legacy of PNoy. Just to make sure that no Filipino shall opress and kill a fellow Filipino…NEVER AGAIN.
vander says
ah yes, kudos to vhinAB.
excitement impairs vision. hehehe!
Parekoy says
I forgot one his great legacy, the passing of RH Law!
I supported it and so as majority of Filiponos and this castrates the Catholic Church in meddling with our women’s reproductive choice. The effect o this will be seen within the first decade where the population explosion will be a dud. After a generation the economkc and peace and order rewards will be fully felt.
Kudos to Aquino on this, and I thank Claire for reminding us of this great law!
Vhin AB says
To continue PNoy’s legacy about women’s rights. He must also push Divorce Law although I guess there’s not much time.
My wish for the next president is to modernize our military. (NO MORE ‘BULOK’ military hardwares.) To have a credible Air Force, a couple of submarines, a state-of-the-art destroyers and fast patrol boats to guard our shores and country’s integrity. During peace time, it can be used against plunderers.
Parekoy says
Divorce Law is in the offing but not a priority. The next President will make it as a bargainig chip if the Catholic Church decided to destabilize his/her admin.
Modernizing the Military is dependent on the FOI Bill for the bidding requirments and specs are well publicized and the moneymakers in the AFP will earn their commissions through creative legal loopoles which is not as delibitating as the current blatant abused of rigging the contracts.
Vhin AB says
Divorce Law should now be a priority. Option yan na panahon na para maging batas. But FOI should remain the top priority of PNoy and will be his legacy.
leona says
Who is the worthy Filipino who wants to be the next President who is willing to adapt, use and make it true this Legacy Message?
The Message is all about some simple issues: Corruption. Justice. Public Trust and Honesty. Anti-Dynasty. Freedom of Information. Peace and Order. Poverty. Jobs.
Reading The Message is loud and clear for each one – A true and proud Filipino.
It is some litany of what bad was done in the past. Decades of badness. Evil. A history of government personalities who did things and who failed to do the right things for the country.
Exaggerated and too much unnecessary reconciliation. Sacrficing the goodness that could have been done for the people. Lackadaisical in government leadership and in the Rule of Law.
Let us hope a worthy President will present a clear Message of what are the programs of the next government come May 2016. Shall we continue to be fooled? To be cheated?
To be misinformed? To be led astray? To support and follow the corrupts here and now and for the next Administrations to come? To be passive? To be indifferent? To be of no care?
Thanking Parekoy for what I call this – A Message for presidential and vice presidentiable potentials.
Parekoy says
Welcome! You’ll be a great VP someday!
:)
baycas says
Haha…
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/698854/junjun-binay-loses-bid-to-inhibit-sereno
Asa ka pa…
NHerrera says
He he he indeed!
With Justices Velasco Jr., Peralta, Brion and Jardeleza inhibiting themselves, that leaves 11 to decide. With Junjun Binay’s DENIED petition to inhibit the 3 — Chief Justice Sereno, Justices Carpio and Villarama — that effectively leaves the following 8 Justices to decide, ALONG with the 3:
1. Teresita De Castro
2. Lucas Bersamin
3. Mariano del Castillo
4. Jose Perez
5. Jose Mendoza
6. Bienvenido Reyes
7. Estela Perlas Bernabe
8. Victor Leonen
If only 3 out of the 8 decide against Binay added to the 3 (CJ Sereno, Justice Carpio, Justice Villarama), we have the decision against Binay — 6 to 5.
No wonder Junjun Binay and consequently the Binays are shaking in their shoes.
@baycas, Is my arithmetic OK?
talikala says
ga-ilusyon na sila baycas….
Claire says
It’s really more fun in the philippines election time. Before I find political advertisement annoying but now I accept it as one of the ways that can raise our economy, give people temporary jobs & raise tv profits. Out of all the presidentiable candidates whose names are seen in surveys and get lots of air time I find Grace Poe more winnable. Mar Roxas will take a lot of convincing. Duterte seems like he is all talk and I really hate the fact he perpetuates family dynasty in Davao. Binay is a losing force.
Vhin AB says
Family dynasty is a permanent fixture in Philippine politics. In the U.S., you can even find sitting senators for 40 years straight although they are elected based on their accomplishments and voting record about critical issues facing the nation.
I hope that their political ads should concentrate more on their mahor accomplishments and not just showing a smiling face, kissing some babies and/or eating with poor people. It should be about their stand on major issues that our country is facing now and in the future.
Claire says
I never expected anything out of the Aquino Administration. I like the Arroyo Admin’s handling of the economy and I really thought someone of his caliber would be like another Estrada. Out of all the candidates I wanted Gibo to win as President and Binay as VP. I like their tv ads. It was very convincing, especially the one where it said ‘ganito kami sa makati sana sa buong pilipinas din’.
As a student it was hard to take that Aquino would win because his popular mother died. After all the son cannot be like the mother. But all in all I like how he brought positivity in our country. The Philippines is spotlighted as the 2nd fastest economy in asia, the tourism business is booming, all time record of FDI inflows(let’s not compare it to the neighbours, we’ve been a laggard for a long time & there is no magic to jumpstart FDI), improving manufacturing sector & a booming stock market.
I also like the fact that he tried to improve our military, PAG-ASA, the tax collection, the airports (still work in progress: dipolog, cebu, manila), the drainage system & failing but still trying to improve customs.
He made very good appointments. Morales, De Lima, Henares, Luistro, Jimenez, Singson, Cesar V. Purisima, Tetangco, Abad. I like them because aside from doing their jobs they don’t put their faces in tv ads. It’s quite refreshing to not see a tourism secretary’s face in every advertisement.
In his campaign, the promises I remembered him saying in rallies is that he is amicable with the RH Law, he does not like the 10 year education system, FOI, no new tax but he would raise the tax revenue by improved collection & jail the big fishes. RH law is passed but I don’t know about the implementation, K-12, NO FOI, only sin tax and a record increase of tax revenue, & big fishes jailed or detained: ex president, senators, congressman, governor, mayor, & top officials of pnp. Kicked out & harassed by the BIR: ex-cj Corona.
There is a lot of things I dislike about the Aquino administration but I like to focus on the good things than the bad.
Parekoy says
There is a lot of things I dislike about the Aquino administration but I like to focus on the good things than the bad.
This is true in other blogsite who are propagandists of Aquino but here in CPM, we are brutally honest and we discuss the goods and the bads and leave our readers well-informed and have better bearings when they decide to support or reject the offerings of our charlatan politicians.
Out of all the presidentiable candidates whose names are seen in surveys and get lots of air time I find Grace Poe more winnable.
I find others winnable too but unfortunately the new politics we are espousing here in CPM is not winnability alone but a fair scrutiny o their credentials, their integrity, and the risk and rewards they might bring to the Filipino People. If we concede that winnability is the main criteria, I think we are doomed for Pacquiao will be our soon to be President.
You know?………………….
vander says
hahaha, beware,
pacman might aim for that.
the man is a believer of his fans and friends.
he will go for it when there is a clamor.
he possesses that basic belief that anyone can do anything if he believes in himself.
and the more it intensified when he started to become a preacher.
imo, he might think he can do a david someday, who knows?
you know!
balayang says
Like
Joe America says
Fortunately, Claire, some here at CPM agree with you, that President Aquino has elevated the Philippines both domestically and internationally. We are able to sort out the good and the bad, see the bigger picture, and judge that it is important to continue this kind of leadership. Being supportive of the President is not a character flaw or wrong-headed even if others are not able to get there.
I’m one of the bloggers to whom Parekoy refers, and my support of the Aquino leadership is not built on some blind following of the yellow crowd, but on the same kind of measurement you have done that sees the good and the bad and the overall progress of the Philippines during Mr. Aquino’s term. I resist the idea that this is reason to be labeled unkindly. Parekoy speaks for himself, not the entire CPM community. It is an outstanding community, with many varied voices, great intelligence, and deep involvement in Philippine affairs.
Vhin AB says
I, for one, always see the good things and positive impact of our leaders especially the president. I supported every president as much as I can because I believe that their office is sacred. I understand that it is very difficult to balance all kinds of major issues and personalities.
But I can also see and weigh the mistakes and wrong decisions of the president. I get upset, too but I don’t want to withdraw my support for every mistake that he/she commits because as I’ve said before that it’s difficult to govern over 100 million people.
In the case of GMA, her long list of cases of graft and corruption almost made me deny that I’m a Filipino. Too much for me to handle. How about Erap? God save the Philippines!
With PNoy, yes he makes mistakes but my biggest consolation is that I know PNoy will not steal even a single cent. That for me is enough to continue supporting him, not blindly though.
Joe America says
The term “blindly following” is rather like the term “indolent Filipino” or the Philippines as a “failed state”, they are easy, disparaging labels attached by those too manipulative, uninformed or lazy to present the complex facts. Well, James Fallows at least, in his article, said what he meant by failed state. But here the terms “yellow” or “blind follower” are meant to disparage people for personal reasons unrelated to the issue.
The issue is, if we seek a strong Philippines, and recognize we have a capable President, why would we weaken him by disparaging him or those who back him? It weakens the Philippines. This does not mean we have to let the President off when he makes what we consider a mistake. It means that we put it in context of his overall uplift of the nation, which is profound.
To be factual, I do not follow the President blindly. I support him, and criticize him from time to time. Below is a record of my blogs about the President. Any reader interested in the truth of JoeAm and other “blind yellow” followers might take it upon themselves to read about JoeAm’s views on term limits for Aquino or his loyalty weakness or his ups and down. My blog can be searched for the term “President Aquino” or “Noynoy Aquino”, or Google the specific articles. You can also do a search on Poe, or Duterte, or Roxas, or Lacson, or Cayetano, or Trillanes, or Nationalista Party (Villar) to see that I do a whole lot of writing to try to discover an enlightened path through the Philippine political forests.
Trust me, when Parekoy does his sly disparaging remarks, he is mainly just dealing with personal issues. The facts are out there. My support of President Aquino is always couched in terms of support for the Philippines, and is not some gaga simplified cheering of a star. I suspect that is true of most “blind yellow” followers.
• WHY PRESIDENT AQUINO IS RIGHT TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THE SUPREME COURT (2014)
• HOW PRESIDENT AQUINO CAN ASSURE A WIN FOR HIS PICK IN 2016 (2014)
• ‘DEAR MR. PRESIDENT, ABOUT THOSE TERM LIMITS . . .” (2014)
• HAVE FILIPINOS SOLD THEIR SOULS TO FAMILY BLOODLINES? AND MR. AQUINO? (2014)
• NOYNOY AQUINO, A KALEIDOSCOPIC PRESIDENT (2014)
• PRESIDENT AQUINO’S ACHILLES HEEL: LOYALTY (2014)
• HOW PRESIDENT AQUINO’S DATE WITH YOLANDA WENT (2014)
• A PHILIPPINE HERO: BENIGNO AQUINO III (2014)
• WHY I RESPECT PRESIDENT AQUINO (2014)
• THE SPEECH PRESIDENT AQUINO CANNOT GIVE (2013)
• WHAT I LEARNED ABOUT PRESIDENT AQUINO (2012)
• IS PRESIDENT AQUINO AN IDIOT? (2012)
• A FIRST CLASS PHILIPPINES: PRESIDENT BENIGNO S. AQUINO III (2012)
• PRESIDENT AQUINO: UPS AND DOWNS (2012)
• HISTORY FROM THE FRONT END: PRESIDENT AQUINO (2012)
• RATING PRESIDENT AQUINO: PART III (2012)
• RATING PRESIDENT AQUINO: PART II (2012)
• PRESIDENT AQUINO: LIKE A BEAT UP OLD CAR (2012)
• PRESIDENT AQUINO, JESUS CHRIST AND RICHARD NIXON (2011)
• THE KID AND PRESIDENT AQUINO (2011)
• PRESIDENT AQUINO AND THE GET REAL CRITICS (2011)
• I LIKE PRESIDENT AQUINO (2011)
vander says
@Vhin AB,
you made my life easier.
as if you directly read my mind.
agree 100%.
:)
Parekoy says
SC’s Decision on Poe’s Citizenship
SC will be forced to render a decision and I consider this a political one since this case has a great repercussion on the disqualification of a possible popular Presidential Candidate, Grace Poe.
1. Based on our constitutions, from 1935, 1973 and 1987, there is no definite clause that says a foundling is a natural born citizen, and the court will rule based on the ambiguity of them and find Grace Poe not a natural-born citizen. In our opinion, Grace Poe is a naturalized citizen and not stateless. The SC can only interpret to a certain extent and in this case we suggest that the lawmakers deal with the question of foundlings by making a law explicitly defines their citizenship and their rights and with the intention of protecting the individual as well as the state rights.
2. Based on our constitutions, from 1935, 1973 and 1987, there is no definite clause that says a foundling is a natural born citizen, and the court will rule base on the ambiguity of them and find Grace Poe a natural-born citizen for the logical and compassionate reasons. As we noted that Grace Poe is indeed born here and most likely we like to err in the side of humanity that indeed one of her parents is a Filipino Citizen thus she is a natural-born. Also adopting the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child according to Jus Soli and based on the citizenship of the adopting parents deemed foundlings as natural born.
Others can add some creative jurisprudence and let see how it might go.
Parekoy
06-16-2015
leona says
Will our own Supreme Court adapt to being striict constructionists to a particular legal philosophy of judicial interpretation that limits or restricts judicial interpretation? (like in the United States)
– which requires a judge to apply the text only as it is written? That ocnce the court has a clear meaning of the text, no further investigation is required? No inferences drawn.
Wikipedia gives this story has “Davy Crockett delivering a speech called “Not Yours To Give”, in which he urged the United States Congress to reject an appropriation for a Naval widow on the grounds that Congress had no Constitutional authority to give charity.”
Or to lead one to logically deduce absurdities, the Doctrine of Absurdities – that commonsense interpretations should be used in such cases, rather than literal reading of a law or of original intent?
Will our courts and the High Court interpret The Constitution contrary to their plain meaning in order to avoid absurd legal conclusions?
Can the Filipino people expect this – “The common sense of man approves the judgment mentioned by Pufendorf [sic. Puffendorf], that the Bolognian law which enacted ‘that whoever drew blood in the streets should be punished with the utmost severity’, did not extend to the surgeon who opened the vein of a person that fell down in the street in a fit?
And – “The same common sense accepts the ruling, cited by Plowden, that the statute of 1st Edward II, which enacts that a prisoner who breaks prison shall be guilty of a felony, does not extend to a prisoner who breaks out when the prison is on fire – ‘for he is not to be hanged because he would not stay to be burnt’?”
A time for common sense in legal philosophy.
leona says
Link to the source quoted –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_constructionism
Parekoy says
I would have to rescind my offer of VP position, you are an SC material!
You enrich this site with your legal contributions and I look forward for many more to come!
:)
leona says
Will always try to be Eveready battery for that!
Thanks for you kind conscience too.
:-)
balayang says
SUCH A PAUSE THAT REFRESHES, LEONINE;
Pardon my taking liberties with your name, oh WISE ONE
Joe America says
Davy Crockett is an American Legend. He killed his first bear when he was three years old. Raccoon skin hat. Died in the Alamo defending American sovereignty. I wonder if Senator Santiago would take up arms on Pagasa. Fess Parker was the actor who played Davy Crockett on the television series. He was on our Board of Directors, tall, decent fellow. He went off to build a winery in Santa Maria, helping to establish that region as a major wine district second to the Napa Valley. It’s close to LA, and makes for a fun wine-tasting trip.
leona says
There is no substitute for A Fun Wine-tasting event! I always forget what ‘a party’ was about!
he he
KickaPoo in wine!
:-)
vander says
i have mentioned much much earlier that GP, imo, is a natural born filipino.
yes, common sense.
it is.
most of our actions/deeds/decisions are anchored in “CS”.
though CS is always trumped or abused by our very own legal thinlkers to favor money.
money it is that raped our system.
intensified by greed.
baycas says
If that common sense will prove to be common after all then candidate Poe will not be judged according to her being natural-born Filipino or not.
For the opponents of candidate Poe will only complain about her residency and American citizenship.*
But there goes certainty…for I hope that the SC will finally place ALL foundlings–past, present, future–in the Philippines their natural-born status as Philippine nationals. The legal presumption will always be presumed until the day the issue is brought to court.
—–
*http://www.bworldonline.com/content.php?section=Opinion&title=When-and-how-did-Poe-reacquire-her-Philippine-citizenship?&id=109770
baycas says
http://www.bworldonline.com/content.php?section=Opinion&title=When-and-how-did-Poe-reacquire-her-Philippine-citizenship?&id=109770
leona says
Yes, many questionable decisions comes out senses in conflicts = SC!
How right you are on that.
:-)
jorge bernas says
Sana makapag desisyon na ang Supreme Court para matapos na ang usaping ito…kapag pinatagal ibig sabihin ay naghihintay pa nang Kasunduan, je je jeje…
ricelander says
What if a foundling has all the physical features of, say, a pure Caucasian, or Chinese? Natural-born Filipino citizen pa rin?
baycas says
This is an excerpt from my previous comment (#18.5.1.1)…
—–
So, the Hague Convention spelled out that the “right of the soil” should be enforced for special cases of unknown parentage. [INTERNATIONAL]
I guess it’s no wonder that in 1940, the Secretary of Justice back then had the opinion of conforming to the international directive regardless of ‘conflict’:
Supreme Court review is inevitable…if ever this issue will reach the Supreme Court.
—–
baycas says
[TRIVIA]
Even in the 1890s, Mr. George D. Collins believed in the jus sanguinis principle (casetext.com/case/united-states-v-wong-kim-ark?page=676).
He also believed that foundlings are exceptions to this “nationality by descent” principle…
However, his assertions were inapplicable to the jus soli principle being applied as birth right in determining nationality in the U.S. of A.
Rene-Ipil says
Ariel Anthony Tizon
You wrote:
“Article 2 of the said Convention is not applicable to her situation precisely because Article 12 (3) categorically limits Article 2 to those foundlings found after the Convention shall have been in force in the State of the Contracting Party.”
If Article 2 of the 1961 UN Convention is not applicable to Grace Poe, it follows that Article 1 does not apply also to Grace.
Article 1 pertains to a person born in its territory who would otherwise be stateless. Please take note that in Article 1 the person is born in a particular country. How do we know that a foundling is born in a particular country? Article 2 says that a foundling found in the territory of a State shall be considered to have been born within that territory. And that person is born of parents possessing the nationality of that State.” Article 1 should be read in conjunction with Article 2 insofar as foundlings are concerned.
So that a child born by Vietnamese refugees at the South China Sea and found in Philippine shores as foundling shall be considered born in the country. That the child’s parents shall be considered Filipinos. And that the foundling shall be granted Filipino nationality either automatically, by operation of the Philippine constitution and statute, or subsequently, upon application. Granting that the 1961 UN Convention is in force in the Philippines.
We now go to the international custom and practice of recognizing the right of a person to have nationality. Of course a person born of Filipino mother or father is a natural-born Filipino citizen, regardless of such custom. But a foundling has to find refuge in international customary law to have nationality when domestic laws, including the fundamental law or constitution, treaties and conventions do not avail
Has the grant of citizenship to foundlings found in a country been a customary international law? Customary international law is defined by the “Manual on International and Regional instruments Concerning Refugees and Human Rights” as:
“The existing legal rules and practices of states which are so prevalent and generally recognized that they have become the usual norms of civilized states even in cases where those rules are not codified in international treaties or conventions. Customary international law is binding upon all states in their relations with other states. Customary international law can be derived from the general practice of a majority of states, judicial or other legally authoritative decisions, and the opinion of scholars.”
It derives from the general practice of MAJORITY of states. But of course the minority could not impose their custom and practice to the majority. Of the 193 UN members only 65 has either signified or acceded to the 1961 UN Convention which treaty is the ONLY one that specifically deals on foundlings.
baycas says
1/4
Speaking of ‘practice,’
What have been good practices seen in ASEAN countries since 2010?
http://www.unhcr.org/4d7de47f9.pdf
One of which is creating safeguards against statelessness by accomplishing domestic legal reforms.
baycas says
2/4
ASEAN Member States: ten (10)
http://www.asean.org/asean/asean-member-states
baycas says
3/4
Those who made legal reforms…
baycas says
4/4
Baby Rojing comes to mind…
—–
Page 17 of the thesis cited above contains a table of the international agreements relevant to ASEAN Member States. Philippines is the only one that ratified the 1954 U.N. Convention on Statelessness (and started to accede to the 1961 Convention only in 2011). Other member states are not Parties to both conventions.
And yet, six of the ASEAN Member excluding the Philippines provided domestic legislation for foundlings.
Rene-Ipil says
Maybe our constitution could be amended to apply the doctrine of jus soli for foundlings found in the Philippines using the ASEAN practice as justification.
But this would lead to a situation where the child of overstaying Chinese couple would be abandoned at the font of Quiapo church to be retrieved soon by a certain Eddie Mi Li Tang, a naturalized Filipino sibling of one of the couple. The foundling named Graciano would be adopted by Eddie and would become a natural-born Filipino citizen. Graciano could win as congressman of Quiapo district of Manila later on.
baycas says
By a sudden twist of imagination…
Mr. Egay “Red” Sun Da Lo’s ward, Marciano, foundling of the same age as Graciano, became commander-in-chief and dictator in no time.
He decreed the existence of the “9-gazillion-dashed line” annexing the whole Philippines to his adoptive country.
baycas says
…There goes @leona’s loyalty…
baycas says
On loyalty: http://raissarobles.com/2015/06/12/senator-grace-poe-thanks-me-for-baring-us-govt-records-that-she-dropped-her-us-citizenship-in-2012/comment-page-1/#comment-307541
Ariel Anthony A Tizon says
@Rene-Ipil
Your points of contention are well taken. And I do appreciate you obviously have read my commentary on this subject..
My rejoinder:
As to your proposition on the reading together of Articles 1 and 2 of the 1961 Convention ( based on the premise, as in my article), that the concepts therein are already accepted part of international customs and principle.
Actually, it is not only the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness that deals with nationality of foundling contrary to your averment. I even mention it in my commentary. Thus for reference:
Convention on Certain Questions Relating to the Conflict of Nationality Law (Entry into force: 1 July 1937)
Article 14 .A child whose parents are both unknown shall have the nationality of the country of birth. If the child’s parentage is established, its nationality shall be determined by the rules applicable in cases where the parentage is known.
A foundling is, until the contrary is proved, presumed to have been born on the territory of the State in which it was found.
I omitted the application of this provision simply because there had been no issue that Senator Grace Poe was not born in the Jaro, Iloilo, Philippines where she was found or anywhere else but in the Philippines.
Although, however remote the possibility that she may had been born outside the Philippines and was purposely brought into the country just to be left there should be entertained for completeness of the argument. But in the balance of probabilities, you would honestly agree with me that she was most if not 100& born in the Philippines.
Here lies another problem.
Both Article 2 of the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness and Article 14 of Convention on Certain Questions Relating to the Conflict of Nationality Law do not specifically provide WHEN or HOW the nationality of the foundling be reckoned with. Is it from birth, age of majority, or upon application by the proper person?
The answer to this question is the linchpin of the claim Grace Poe is a natural-born citizen of the Philippines, a legal stand I completely support.
Why? Because if sustained by the Supreme Court should a case be filed on this issue, she would be a Filipino from birth AND since she had not done anything to acquire or perfect her Filipino citizenship ( having acquired it from birth under Article 1 of the 1961 Convention that is mandatory because of the use of the word SHALL) she is a natural-born Filipino as defined under the 1973 or 1987 Constitutions.
For purposes of completess, Article 2 and Article 12 (3) of the 1961 Convention are hereunder reproduced, to wit:
“Article 2
A foundling found in the territory of a Contracting State shall, in the absence of proof to the contrary, be considered to have been born within that territory of parents possessing the nationality of that State.
xxxx
Article 12 (3)
The provisions of Article 2 of this Convention shall apply only to foundlings found in the territory of a Contracting State after the entry into force of the Convention for that State.”
An analytical reading of the aforementioned articles would prove my point exactly.
More telling is the fact that her biological parents are unknown. Do we based our presumption from another presumption? Could we really with certainty know her biological parents are filipino citizens?
On your Vietnamese example. Being born and found are different, I believe. A child born in a ship or boat is granted the nationality of the flag of the boat ( state of registry of the boat ) if the parents are unknown. I f the baby is a foundling found on Phil shores the baby is considered a Phil citizen I submit
In fact, the article by Irene R. Cortez & Rapael Perpetuo M. Lotilla titled, ” Nationality and International Law from the Philippine Perspective” , published in Philippine Law Journal, cited the Secretary of Justice (Opinion of the Secretary of Justice No. 277 Series of 1940) opinion of considering a foundling whose parents were unknown as a national of the Philippines even if the foundling’s features appeared to be of foreign parentage.
Note: this is not a primary source as I havent had the chance to read the opinion in the original.
I know this is not an SC decision but is persuasive and reflective on the conduct of the Philippines in the observance of treaties/conventions of which it is not a party or has not acceded to.
As to your narrative about international customs, I absolutely agree with you. But it does not mean a state cannot avail of the provisions of international conventions or treaties it is not party to on its own discretion. The formal acceptance of a State to treaties/conventions signify its consent to apply the law in case of conflict between states to bind themselves with clear and unequivocal intent ( although a State can make reservations and exceptions) and as a defined measure of its commitment to the avowed higher purpose of harmony and peace between States.
After all, there is such a concept of a State’s unilateral observance and compliance of the terms of a treaty/ convention by consistent domestic practice.
Got to get back to what I was previously doing. Kind regards.
baycas says
That’s what six (6) ASEAN Member States, excluding the Philippines, did. (See #42.1.2)
Since foundlings are natural-born Philippine citizens then their foundling certificates must have an effect like a certificate of live birth wherein passport application for foundlings would no longer require the Philippine passport of the founder.
baycas says
As pointed out by @Rene, Philippines is adherent to jus sanguinis principle since 1947…
Ariel Anthony Tizon says
@ baycas @ rene-ipil @raissa
Yes, both of you are absolutely right in respect to the non application of the jus soli principle. However, one of the rules in applying a prior court decision to a pending controversy requires the similarity of facts involved.
Here lies the distinction. Senator Grace Poe is a foundling, unlike the Tan Chong case.
I submit the decision you relied upon has only persuasive effect in the case of SGP because of this glaring fact she is a foundling.
A foundling’s nationality under Philippine law is a very interesting topic, a novelty, if I may say.
As far as I am aware, there is no Supreme Court ruling on this matter that is why we are here discussing this. Personally, I am very fascinated by this ongoing controversy that I always find time to reply to comments addressed to me, and hopefully, we all can learn from each other.
To further our discussion ( I dont really treat this as a debate of sorts). Apparently, there is a Sec of Justice Opinion (series of 1940 ) where the good secretary considered a foundling found in the Philippines as having Philippine nationality EVEN IF THE FEATURES OF THE CHILD POINT OUT TO A FOREIGN PARENTAGE. Take note this is AFTER the 1935 Constitution. SGP ws born in 1968 so the 1935 is the suggested point of consideration.
In his article about SGP’s citizenship Former Chief Justice Panganiban said and I quote,
“However, the framers of the 1935 Constitution explained that expressly providing citizenship rules for foundlings was unnecessary since that could be determined from international law. Note that under the same Charter (and also under the present one), “the Philippines … adopts the generally accepted principles of international law as part of the law of the Nation.”
Read more: http://opinion.inquirer.net/85819/grace-poes-citizenship#ixzz3daoV2RhX
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook
On this premise, the intent of the framers of the constitution was to rely on international law in ascertaining the nationality of a foundling found in the Philippines.
As far as I am aware, there is no SC decision annulling or discrediting that opinion of the Sec of J rendered in 1940. I have not read the opinion in the original transcript so I am presenting a supposition the 1930 Hague Convention Concerning the Conflict of Nationality laws Article 14 was applied to that foundling although the Philippines was not a party to any convention on statelessness at the time the opinion was delivered.
” Article 14
A child whose parents are both unknown shall have the nationality of the country of birth. If the child’s parentage is established, its nationality shall be determined by the rules applicable in cases where the parentage is known. A foundling is, until the contrary is proved, presumed to have been born on the territory of the State in which it was found. ”
True, the Philippines has never been a party to the Hague Convention but still unilaterally inforced the law if indeed it was the law applied. Anyway, the right to nationality of any person is a universal right and had attained the status of an international custom enforceable in the Phil jurisdiction under the 1935, 1973, and 1987 Constitutions without need of any SPECIFIC enabling or procedural law.
BUT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM REMAINS- At what instant in a person’s life (ie., a foundling) shall the nationality of the person be granted? At birth? At age of majority? Upon application by the proper person?
SCENARIOS:
1. If granted at birth even without enabling law, then SGP is a natural-born citizen because of the definition in the Constitution as she did not do anything to acquire or perfect her citizenship.
2. If not granted at birth, then what law will apply to determine when the nationality is conferred to the foundling? It can be reasonably argued that SGP is not a natural-born citizen.
To reconcile International Laws and the Constitution, we could say that the attribution of nationality to a foundling under the doctrine of jus soli is an exception ( or a supplement, or a complimentary to that enumerated in the Constitution. Otherwise, a foundling in Philippine jurisdiction would be “stateless”. This situation is repugnant to basic human rights and international law.
baycas says
Retrospective, Prospective
The 1935 Constitution is retroactive as it looks at the past and is also forward-looking as it dictates Philippine nationals who will be affected by the same legal instrument:
RETROSPECTIVE
Sec. 1(1). Carry over of existing Philippine nationals
Sec. 1(2). Natural-born Filipino, foreign parents, conditional in nature, nationality by place of birth: the only exception to nationality by descent (jus soli)
PROSPECTIVE
Sec. 1(3). Natural-born Filipino, nationality by descent (jus sanguinis)
Sec. 1(4). Natural-born Filipino, nationality by descent, by choice upon age of majority (jus sanguinis)
Sec. 1(5). Naturalized Filipino
baycas says
1935 Constitution
baycas says
Section 1(2), as applied, made ConCom delegate Caram an exception to the jus sanguinis rule. He was deemed natural-born Filipino despite having foreign parents. The framers specifically etched this fact.
A foundling’s fate in terms of citizenship, due to “rarity” of foundling occurrence, was left to chance and was not clearly defined or identified in the same legal instrument (The 1935 Constitution) as one of the exceptions to the jus sanguinis rule.
baycas says
@Ariel,
Please read also the entire mini-thread here starting from Comment No. 73.5:
raissarobles.com/2015/06/16/im-attending-deutsche-welles-global-media-forum-on-media-and-foreign-policy-in-the-digital-age/comment-page-2/#comment-309588
baycas says
Here’s the working link:
http://raissarobles.com/2015/06/16/im-attending-deutsche-welles-global-media-forum-on-media-and-foreign-policy-in-the-digital-age/comment-page-2/#comment-309588
Ariel Anthony Tizon says
Point well taken.