Law Dean told me he’s willing to petition SC in behalf of these lolos accused of raping minors
Exclusive By Raïssa Robles
Senator Juan Ponce Enrile has been granted bail despite the fact that he is accused of a capital crime – plunder – that is supposed to be non-bailable.
Enrile’s bail has caused an uproar.
Harvard law graduate Oscar Franklin Tan wrote a highly provocative column entitled – Would you grant bail if it was not Enrile?
Likewise, Fr. Ranhilio Aquino, Dean of the San Beda Graduate School of Law, wrote: “I wonder: Had bail been granted a 91-year old farmer charged with a crime punishable by reclusion perpetua, would there have been strenuous objections? So, it seems that the protest is directed not really at the justness of the decision, but because it is Enrile involved. “
I’m not a lawyer, just an observer. So’ I’d like to suggest, let’s test the premises of both Atty. Tan and Fr. Rannie with actual cases.
In the case of Fr. Rannie, I decided to ask him directly whether he would be willing to go to the Supreme Court to petition for bail for other detained lolos similarly charged with a capital crime. I found news reports on five lolos who have been detained for the non-bailable crime of raping young girls.
Fr. Rannie told me he was willing to file a petition before the Supreme Court. I wrote down his exact words to me –
“For as long as their counsels agree, If you can get their papers , I will gladly draft a petition (for the lolos) following the theory I’m advocating.”
The dean patiently explained to me his theory – “that the denial of bail can only take place after evidence (is presented).” He said that after an information is filed against an accused and the offense is punishable with a life term, the accused usually asks for a bail hearing so the court can weigh whether or not the evidence is strong. In Dean Rannie’s opinion, the anti-graft court Sandiganbayan erred by denying Enrile bail even while the bail hearing was going on. “Because you can deny bail only when you know the evidence of guilt is strong,” he said.
But the Dean pointed out that the Supreme Court decision penned by Associate Justice Lucas Bersamin did not at all rule on this point. Instead, he said, Bersamin’s decision to grant Enrile bail “rests on humanitarian grounds.”
Since this is the case, let’s ask lawyers to petition before the Supreme Court similar bail on humanitarian grounds for this 80-year-old grandfather who is now in jail in Sirawai, Zamboanga del Norte accused of the non-bailable crime of raping a four-year-old girl.
You can read about the news story here.
Remember, the main argument for Enrile’s bail, according to Associate Justice Lucas Bersamin is that
“Bail for the provisional liberty of the accused, regardless of the crime charged, should be allowed independently of the merits of the charge, provided his continued incarceration is clearly shown to be injurious to his health or to endanger his life. Indeed, denying him bail despite imperiling his health and life would not serve the true objective of preventive incarceration during the trial.”
I am presuming that since this lolo is far poorer than Sen. Enrile, and almost certainly can’t afford stem cell injections, he is even less healthy than the senator. Therefore his continued incarceration would be injurious to his health or would endanger his life even more.
But just to get the physical evidence that this lolo is less healthy, let him submit himself to a free health examination. Let’s see if he is less or more healthy than Enrile. Remember that Justice Bersamin noted the following about Enrile:
(1) Chronic Hypertension with fluctuating blood pressure levels on multiple drug therapy; (Annexes 1.1, 1.2, 1.3);
(2) Diffuse atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease composed of the following:
a. Previous history of cerebrovascular disease with carotid and vertebral artery disease; (Annexes 1.4, 4.1)
b. Heavy coronary artery calcifications; (Annex 1.5)
c. Ankle Brachial Index suggestive of arterial calcifications. (Annex 1.6)(3) Atrial and Ventricular Arrhythmia (irregular heart beat) documented by Holter monitoring; (Annexes 1.7.1, 1.7.2)
(4) Asthma-COPD Overlap Syndrom (ACOS) and postnasal drip syndrome; (Annexes 2.1, 2.2)
(5) Ophthalmology:
a. Age-related mascular degeneration, neovascular s/p laser of the Retina, s/p Lucentis intra-ocular injections; (Annexes 3.0, 3.1, 3.2)
b. S/p Cataract surgery with posterior chamber intraocular lens. (Annexes 3.1, 3.2)(6) Historical diagnoses of the following:
a. High blood sugar/diabetes on medications;
b. High cholesterol levels/dyslipidemia;
c. Alpha thalassemia;
d. Gait/balance disorder;
e. Upper gastrointestinal bleeding (etiology uncertain) in 2014;
f. Benign prostatic hypertrophy (with documented enlarged prostate on recent ultrasound).42Dr. Gonzales attested that the following medical conditions, singly or collectively, could pose significant risks to the life of Enrile, to wit: (1) uncontrolled hypertension, because it could lead to brain or heart complications, including recurrence of stroke; (2) arrhythmia, because it could lead to fatal or non-fatal cardiovascular events, especially under stressful conditions; (3) coronary calcifications associated with coronary artery disease, because they could indicate a future risk for heart attack under stressful conditions; and (4) exacerbations of ACOS, because they could be triggered by certain circumstances (like excessive heat, humidity, dust or allergen exposure) which could cause a deterioration in patients with asthma or COPD.43”
And if this lolo, whose name was not given in the news report probably to protect the victim, is found to be similarly “in poor health” like Enrile, then this lolo should also be given his provisional liberty.
Because Enrile is not the only detainee who should enjoy the wisdom and compassion of the Supreme Court.
In fact, working under what could possibly become the Bersamin Doctrine, our lawyers should look around the country’s jail cells and find even more geriatric detainees who should enjoy the compassion of the Supreme Court.
Pronto.
P.S. This morning, curiosity drove me to look for other lolos who have been detained while awaiting trial. I found four others – all accused of the non-bailable and capital offense of raping minors.
Last December, a lolo was arrested in the town of Tigaon, Camarines Sur province after being accused of raping his 10-year-old apo. I am presuming this story is accurate because it was written for GMA News by Joel Locsin, my former colleague in Philippine Star. You can read Joel’s story by clicking here.
In December 2013, the Times Journal reported that a 73-year-old lolo was arrested for raping a 13-year-old girl in Zamboanga del Sur. You can read the news report here.
In 2012, Virgilio Bolanda, 71, was reported as being held at the Pasig City detention center after a mother accused him of raping her daughters aged five, seven and nine. You can read about this here.
Now the lawyers might say that Bolanda should not be granted bail under what might become the Bersamin doctrine because Bolanda might do it again. However, the same argument could perhaps be used against Enrile – that allowing him bail gives him access again to state funds, which he is accused of diverting.
Finally, there is an undated report about 74-year-old Alberto Sioson who was arrested in Hermosa, Bataan for allegedly raping a 14-year-old. You can read about it here.
To summarize, the detention of all FIVE LOLOS can be the test case of what could become the Bersamin Bail Doctrine.
Mel says
impex123 says
Eto na po ang Bersamin Doctrine. Marami pala itong application.
Sabi nga ng isang commenter, hindi sya tutol sa application nito kay Cudia. Agree rin ako. I hope mabigyan sya ng chance na makapag simula uli.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/721161/dismissed-pma-cadet-returns-to-sc-cites-humanitarian-grounds-for-papers-release
Mel says
OMB’s Motion for Reconsideration
Source: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/719985/enrile-bail-a-picture-of-injustice-inequality-partiality-and-preference-ombudsman
Rene-Ipil says
[email protected] of “On Rizalito David’s disqualification case . .”
“One of the documents is a July 18, 2006, order issued by then Immigration Commissioner Alipio Fernandez Jr., through Associate Commissioner Roy Almoro, declaring that Poe, having been born to Filipino parents, was “presumed to be a natural-born Philippine citizen.”
Poe was PRESUMED NBFC because she was BORN TO – in tagalog, iniluwal o inianak ni – Susan according to the sworn declaration of Poe in her petition (Annex 7). Under the rules of court such presumptions could be rebutted by convincing evidence like the judicial decree of adoption (Annex 2) of Poe’s Verified Answer. BTW Poe’s judicial admission that she was adopted by Susan needs no further proof.
Poe did not state in her petition that she was born to unknown parents, being a foundling, to put into play the international laws she relied on for her NBFC. And assuming that Poe is right in claiming that she was NBFC by international laws, maybe the BID could be right also in presuming that she was born to Filipino parents. But Poe insisted in her petition that she was born not only to known parents but to a very popular couple – the king and queen of the Philippine movies.
Since Poe’s sworn statement in her petition is false on material points, the presumption of law that Poe was NBFC must fail. Consequently, the approval of Poe’s petition in Annex 10 has no legal effect. And Poe has failed to reacquire Philippine Citizenship IAW RA 9225.
Not being NBFC Poe must vacate her senatorial seat ASAP.
Mel says
@Rene, salamat for the refresher.
The keyword used by the BI Commissioners to justify the Certification for Grace Poe on July 18, 2006 is ‘presumed’ (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/presumed, 2.
Law. to assume as true in the absence of proof to the contrary).
Without Due Diligence, at face value (na star struck kaya? o naawa because of FPJ’s passing away)
At that time, the BI Commissioners can still be wrong by mere presumption, with out having a unadulterated evidence to prove she was NB. To date, based on what we know now, it was wrong or careless of them to ‘presume’ Grace Poe was a NBFC. Where did they base their presumption from (e.g. US and/or PHIL Passport)? Or by word of mouth, hearsay?
Not fully convinced
I think they (BI Commissioners) knew that GP was not NBFC, but they acceded with the proviso, by an act or insertion of ‘presume’ (as non conclusive).
From that BI Certification that was approved based on presumption is inconclusive. As a former citizen of the Phils., Grace Poe’s reacquisition of NBFC under the Republic Act No. 9225 is, IMO, inadmissible, if not unlawful. She never was a Natural-Born, her bio parents were naught when found. A foundling, adopted child to, NOT born to, FPJ & Susan Roces (who is barren BTW).
Am I entitled to my opinion, onerous or not?
Republic Act No. 9225 is only for ‘Natural born citizens of the Philippines who, after the effectivity of this Act, become citizens of a foreign country shall retain their Philippine citizenship upon taking the aforesaid oath.’ (see Section 3, Republic Act No. 9225)
YOU & other CPMERS, have done more research on this, and we have commented so many times on these in past articles of RR. This is just a comment refresher.
As I have commented before, many of the answers to GP’s citizenship woes can be answered from her BC details (Take note: Municipal or Health Center issued Birth Certificate may not necessarily be thesame with NSO’s system copy).
In GP’s dilemma, ‘Born to ‘ was misused, misapplied (wrong diction or choice of qualifier), deliberate or not.
As per the 1935 Phils’. Constitution, GP is not a Natural-Born Citizen of the Phils (for the nth time). There is no provision or law in the said constitution that automatically assign, grant or award a foundling either a Natural-Born or Naturalized Filipino Citizenship. Republic Act No. 9225 doesn’t even apply to her.
GP and her camp, can quote all or any UN Convention or International Law they want.
It remains, no Phils. Court of Law has heard, decided or granted Grace Poe Natural-Born Filipino Citizen status, past or present. SET is not the right Court to grant or affirm her NB Citizenship, but accommodate petitions, questions or complaints to her eligibility as a Senator, as per R David’s complaints.
‘Immigration Commissioner Alipio Fernandez Jr., through Associate Commissioner Roy Almoro’ may have committed a “grave abuse of discretion” that they “approved Poe’s application for the cancellation of the alien and immigrant certificates and the issuance of certificates for the retention and reacquisition of Filipino citizenship to her and her three children pursuant to Republic Act No. 9225, or the Dual Citizenship Law. They submitted their application on July 10, 2006.”
Ready, SET?
How will the SET Panel treat GP’s ‘born to’ clause in her Certificate?
Mel says
@Rene, my ‘comment is awaiting moderation.‘
Rene-Ipil says
The Order of Approval issued presuming Poe as NBFC must be revoked for fraud and misrepresentation by declaring under oath that she was born to Susan and for concealment of the fact that she was a foundling. The IRR of RA 9225 provides in Section 18 of MC 05-002:
“the Order of Approval issued under these Rules may be revoked by the Department of Justice upon a substantive finding of fraud, misrepresentation or concealment on the part of the applicant and after an administrative hearing initiated by an aggrieved party or by the Bureau of Immigration.”
Ancient Mariner says
Short and sweet. The obvious and only legal way to go.
Kalahari says
How in heaven’s name would the Filipino voters trust a presidential candidate who apparently perjured herself under oath.
As the saying goes: The “ends justifying the means” usually involve doing something wrong to achieve a positive result
Ancient Mariner says
Unfortunately, the vast majority of Filipino voters do not know about Poe’s perjury.
Mel says
Dit·to
Mel says
That goes the same for JJ Binay,
But this presidentiable, used to be a lawyer for militant social causes during the dictator years. Memory (‘database’) is becoming thinner and narrower while he is aging & rusty. Has become docile.
—
Money and the love of it can change people’s once ardent social principles. Has become corrupt, a grafter, a money launderer while portraying himself as meek, humble as a social working class.
Has become so callous that his family (wife, children) too has become oblivious to it all, if has become their social norm to stay and advance their wealth, power & political dynasty.
This family rides on people’s ignorance and dunces. Even profiteering on B-day cakes for the elderly – walang patawad, basta pagkuakuartahan. Equally BLAME THOSE WHO PUT THEM THERE (benefactors, sponsors, voters).
Ariel Anthony Tizon says
The most appropriate observation/argument on the basis of the foregoing factual revelation. Aside from residency issues, Senator Grace Poe-Llamanzares could fall on her own sword on this one…Perjury or Falsification of Public Documents, I dare say?
baycas says
The international trend [Read: “customary” (usually practiced, almost like a norm) and “conventional” (in compliance with established international conventions or guidelines on nationality laws)] exemplified DOMESTIC LEGAL REFORMS (that is, “passed legislation” and “enacted statutes” for foundlings) as clearly, undoubtedly pointed out by Poe’s lawyers on pp. 74-75 of Poe’s Verified Answer and as I had pointed out with ASEAN Member States’ good practices (excluding the Philippines) on children born of unknown parents (despite all ASEAN nations not acceding to and ratifying the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness) citing a UNHCR document and a 2015 thesis by Sangita Jaghai entitled “Statelessness and Transnational Migration: The role of States as duty-bearers to address statelessness in the ASEAN region under international law.”
Now, as regards Senator Manuel Roxas’s statement that foundlings are “few and far in between” during a 1934 deliberation by the Constitutional Convention:
The 1935 Constitution declared the Philippines a jus sanguinis (right of blood or right of descent) country. This is contrary to the jus soli doctrine (right of the soil or right of birthplace) that international conventions dictate in determining foundlings’ nationality and hopefully to be incorporated in a country’s nationality law. (Even up to now, we are still a jus sanguinis country.)
But in the 1935 legal instrument (the one governing a child born, for example, in 1968), the framers specified a constitutional provision accommodating a probably equally few or possibly fewer type of citizens who will AUTOMATICALLY be granted a natural-born Philippine citizenship on account of being born in the Philippines (jus soli application).
The 1935 Constitution in its ARTICLE IV, CITIZENSHIP, Section 1:
“The following are citizens of the Philippines:”
There could have been other established aliens who got elected to public office earlier than the date when the 1935 Constitution took effect as the fundamental law of the Philippines BUT there was one Fermin G. Caram, a public official and a 1934 Constitutional Convention delegate, who benefitted from the provision stated above. He was born of Syrian parents.
Article IV, Sec. 1(2) is the sole exception to the rule of granting the “right of blood/descent” bestowed on Philippine citizens after the adoption of the 1935 Constitution.
It is possible that Caram’s very fortunate position is shared by others but it is also probable that he may be the lone beneficiary of such a rather odd EXCEPTION to the jus sanguinis rule. The foundlings, possibly equally few or probably greater in number compared to Caram’s situation, weren’t given the ‘priced’ constitutional provision and, parsing the elder Manuel Roxas, the right of foundlings to a nationality were just ‘left to chance.’
Statutory construction dictates that when the Constitutional Convention enumerated only a single exception to the jus sanguinis rule then it could readily be inferred that there are NO other exceptions. The legal instrument, the 1935 Constitution, must likewise internally be consistent.
A particular section of the 1935 Constitution should NOT be inconsistent with the rest of the entire fundamental law even though it says in its Article II, Sec. 2 that “the Philippines xxxxx adopts the generally accepted principles of international law as part of the law of the land.”
The 1935, 1973, and 1987 Constitutions mandate Philippine citizenship by “right of blood/descent” while domestic legal reform which is “conventionally” laid down by international law and “customarily” practiced abroad will mandate Philippine citizenship by “right of the soil/birthplace.” If this happens, there will eventually be inconsistency…unconstitutionality.
baycas says
On Caram:
An excerpt here:
Read the full text here:
http://www.geocities.ws/kabatuhan/Digital/letter.htm
Rene-Ipil says
Poe argued in her Verified Answer that the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) granted her NBFC. Poe stated:
“4.62. On 21 August 1990, the Philippines ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (“UNCRC”). Under Article 7 of the UNCRC, the Philippines undertook to protect the right of a new-born to a nationality, and to ensure that
every child is protected from statelessness “from birth.” The provision reads:
“Article 7
“1. The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name, the right to acquire a nationality and as far as possible, the right to know and be cared for by his or her parents.
“2. States Parties shall ensure the implementation of these rights in accordance with their national law and their obligations under the relevant international instruments in this field, in particular where the child would otherwise be stateless.” (pages 59-60).
In FPJ case Justice Carpio wrote in his dissenting opinion that the UNCRC would not apply to FPJ because he was no longer a child in 1990. Indeed, the UNCRC defined the “child” as one below 18 years old. J. Carpio said:
“The Philippines signed the Convention on the Rights of the Child on 26 January 1990 and ratified the same on 21 August 1990. The Convention defines a child to mean every human being below the age of eighteen years unless, under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier. Obviously, FPJ cannot invoke the Convention since he is not a child as defined in the Convention, and he was born half a century before the Convention came into existence. FPJs citizenship at birth in 1939 could not in any way be affected by the Convention which entered into force only on 2 September 1990.”
“In any event, the Convention guarantees a child the right to acquire a nationality,[30] and requires States Parties to ensure the implementation of this right, in particular where the child would otherwise be stateless.[31] Thus, as far as nationality or citizenship is concerned, the Convention guarantees the right of the child to acquire a nationality so that he may not be stateless. The Convention does not guarantee a child a citizenship at birth, but merely the right to acquire a nationality in accordance with municipal law.”
Likewise, the UNCRC would not apply to Poe because she was already 22 years old in 1990. Poe’s alternative to avoid being stateless – now that she has lost US nationality – is to apply for naturalization IAW RA 9139 or the naturalization law of 2002. She is qualified to be naturalized because Poe is more than 18 years old, has real property and business, among other qualifications.
leona says
Rene-Ipil . . . but J. Carpio’s opn was a DISSENTING OPN. What did the MAJORITY OPN say about the UNCRC on FPJ’s case? –
I went over the decision, I find nothing mentioned re: UNCRC discussion(s).
But in the FPJ case, the MAJORITY OPN did say about DNA test –
“In case proof of filiation or paternity would be unlikely to satisfactorily establish or would be difficult to obtain, DNA testing, which examines genetic codes obtained from body cells of the illegitimate child and any physical residue of the long dead parent could be resorted to. A positive match would clear up filiation or paternity.”
A positive or negative match would clear up FILIATION or PATERNITY re Sen. Poe’s case. Would she avail of this or would the SET require this DNA Test?
Re: DNA test, in the FPJ case, the COURT said –
“Parentage will still be resolved using conventional methods unless we adopt the modern and scientific ways available. Fortunately, we have now the facility and expertise in using DNA test for identification and parentage testing. The University of the Philippines Natural Science Research Institute (UP-NSRI) DNA Analysis Laboratory has now the capability to conduct DNA typing using short tandem repeat (STR) analysis. The analysis is based on the fact that the DNA of a child/person has two (2) copies, one copy from the mother and the other from the father. The DNA from the mother, the alleged father and the child are analyzed to establish parentage. Of course, being a novel scientific technique, the use of DNA test as evidence is still open to challenge. Eventually, as the appropriate case comes, courts should not hesitate to rule on the admissibility of DNA evidence. For it was said, that courts should apply the results of science when competently obtained in aid of situations presented, since to reject said result is to deny progress.” Citing the case of In Tijing vs. Court of Appeals, 354 SCRA 17.
Would it be a duty on Sen. Poe’s side to undergo a DNA test for the sake of a very important issue specially to the nation’s VOTERS?
leona says
In the FPJ case discussed above, it was rather discussed by MORALES, J. in her DISSENTING OPN that –
“The first rule is that it is for the municipal law of each State (not for International Law) to determine who are the nationals of a particular State, subject to certain limitations.”
It is the MUNICIPAL LAW and not Internation law to DETERMINE who are the nationals of a a particular State.
Her DISSENT further says –
“Thus, the citizenship of one born during the effectivity of the 1935 Constitution is determined by the provisions thereof. Moreover, the changes in the provisions on citizenship in the present Constitution may not be deemed to retroact to benefit those born before it, except only when such retroactive effect has been made explicit in the Constitution itself.”
No retraoctivity unless made EXPLICIT in the Constitution, past or present. Her DISSENT citing a case and as follows –
“In Re: Application For Admission to the Philippine Bar. Vicente D. Ching,[116] this Court held that:
x x x It should be noted, however, that the 1973 and 1987 Constitutional provisions on the election of Philippine citizenship should not be understood as having a curative effect on any irregularity in the acquisition of citizenship for those covered by the 1935 Constitution. If the citizenship of a person was subject to challenge under the old charter, it remains subject to challenge under the new charter even if the judicial challenge had not been commenced before the effectivity of the new Constitution.”
A challenge under the OLD Constitution [Charter] remains SUBJECT to challenge under a new Constitution [1987] or Charter.
Near the closing of her DISSENTING OPN, J. Morales said –
“Since FPJ then was born out of wedlock and was not acknowledged by his father, the only possible Filipino parent, at the time of his birth, the inescapable conclusion is that he is not a natural-born Philippine citizen.
Consequently, the material representations in his Certificate of Candidacy that [he] is a natural born Filipino citizen, and that [he] is eligible for the office [he] seek[s] to be elected are false. Necessarily, his Certificate of Candidacy must be cancelled pursuant to Section 78 of the Omnibus Election Code.” Bold mine.
Will he be allowed to continue his candidacy? (meaning – FPJ.]
Will she be allowed to continue her candidacy? Meaning – Sen. POE.
I find this dissenting OPN well reasoned acc to the facts and the law compared to the majority OPN.
leona says
Link of dissenting OPN of J. Morales
http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2004/mar2004/161434_carpiomorales.htm
Rene-Ipil says
Leona,
““The first rule is that it is for the municipal law of each State (not for International Law) to determine who are the nationals of a particular State, subject to certain limitations.”
That is one of the rules laid down by the The Hague Convention in 1930 on Conflict of Nationality Laws. But surprisingly Poe cited The Hague convention of 1930 which convention, according to J. Morales, does not apply unless a pertinent local statute is passed by congress.
“4.82.1. Several provisions of the 1930 Hague Convention deal with the acquisition of nationality of several groups who traditionally face statelessness as a result of conflict of laws: married women, children, foundlings, and adopted persons. In 1968, when Respondent was born, the Hague Convention already had twenty-seven (27) State signatories and fifteen (15) State
parties. The Hague Convention now has twenty-one (21) State parties. Article 14 thereof states:
“Article 14
“A child whose parents are both unknown shall have the nationality of the country of birth. If the child’s parentage is established, its nationality shall be
determined by the rules applicable in cases where the parentage is known.
“A foundling is, until the contrary is proved, presumed to have been born on the territory of the State in which it was found.” (page 72).
Until a local law is enacted The Hague Convention of 1930 would not apply to Poe. Indeed, HB No. 1584 is still pending in the lower house since 2013 giving powers to BI to act on application for recognition of Philippine citizenship of foundlings. Likewise, a similar bill in the senate – SB 3404 – is also pending since 2009.
Ancient Mariner says
@Rene-Ipil.
Dare I ask, what in your opinion is the bottom line regarding citizenship and residency of Grace Poe? With a brief (ish) why.
The arguments are spread all over the blog.
My scrolling finger is much fatigued.
baycas says
Without a ruling (SC ROUTE) and legislation (RATIFICATION ROUTE) Poe remains stateless…
Kindly read:
http://raissarobles.com/2015/08/26/dear-lawyers-pls-make-these-detained-lolos-a-test-case-for-enriles-bail-from-supreme-court/comment-page-3/#comment-332405
Her residency is inconsequential…AFAIK.
karl garcia says
with baycas around , we don’t need to scroll.many thanks
Ancient Mariner says
Thank you.
baycas says
Thanks, @karl garcia.
@Ancient Mariner, the “AFAIK” acronym is pronounced “A Fake.” You’re welcome.
Ancient Mariner says
LoL. AFAIK = As far as I know?
leona says
Going further into this POE issue, on International Law or treaties, let us also understand from the view or views of the US Supreme Court where our judicial system, similar in many aspects, had to say something:
‘The application of the Warsaw Convention – the US Sup. Court ‘USED that treat to apply resolving dispute between a carrier and a customer. The Court did not ‘adopt’ legislation to IMPLEMENT regulation. But this decision was hardly a MODEL of coherent deveopment of international rules under a multilateral treaty.’ Caps mine.
‘Other cases, the Court, like the Hague Convention case, demonstrates to apply on the Court’s COMFORT with the application of treaties where APPROPRIATE, but DID NOT indicate a broad predisposition to invoke treaty law.’ Caps mine.
Source of the above: EL Al Israel Airlines v. Tsui Yuan Tseng, 325 U.S. 125 (1999); Zicherman v. Korean Air Lines, 516 U.S. 217 (1996; Eastern Airline v. Floyd, 499 U.S. 530 (1991); Chan v. Korean Air Lines, 490 U.S. 122 (1989); Air France v. Saks, 470 U.S. 392 (1985); Trans World Airlines v. Frankline Mint Corp., 466 U.S. 243 (1984).
Link
https://books.google.com.ph/books
leona says
In one Philippine case, involving PHARMACEUTICAL and HEALTH G.R. NO. 173034 CARE ASSOCIATION of the Philippines,
Petitioner, G.R. No. 173034, Oct. 9, 2007
a dispute on the enforcement of a ‘the International Code of Marketing of Breastmilk Substitutes (ICMBS), a code adopted by the World Health Assembly (WHA) in 1981. From 1982 to 2006, the WHA adopted several Resolutions to the effect that breastfeeding should be supported, promoted and protected, hence, it should be ensured that nutrition and health claims are not permitted for breastmilk substitutes.’
Petitioner filed the case seeking to nullify the RIRR rules of said International Code as it contains provisions that are not constitutional and go beyond the law it is supposed to implement, the COURT said –
“Legislation is necessary to transform the provisions of the WHA Resolutions into domestic law. The provisions of the WHA [World Health Assembly] Resolutions cannot be considered as part of the law of the land that can be implemented by executive agencies without the need of a law enacted by the legislature.’ Caps mine.
‘Soft law does not fall into any of the categories of international law set forth in Article 38, Chapter III of the 1946 Statute of the International Court of Justice.[32] It is, however, an expression of non-binding norms, principles, and practices that influence state behavior.[33] Certain declarations and resolutions of the UN General Assembly fall under this category.[34] The most notable is the UN Declaration of Human Rights, which this Court has enforced in various cases, specifically,’ the COURT said.
‘Soft law’ – The term “soft law” refers to quasi-legal instruments which do not have any legally binding force, or whose binding force is somewhat “weaker” than the binding force of traditional law, often contrasted with soft law by being referred to as “hard law”. Wikipedia source. Bold mine.
leona says
Link
http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2007/october2007/173034.htm
baycas says
Thanks, @leona and @Rene-Ipil.
leona says
According to Sen. Poe in her Verified Answer, on Page 21, par. 2.21.4, admits and specifically avers – that she is a NBFC because of HER OLD PASSPORT –
“2.21.4. To reiterate, under R.A. No. 9225 and B.I. Memorandum Circular No. AFF-05-002, Respondent was not required to prove that she used to be a natural-born citizen of the Philippines. Respondent did not have to prove that she was, in fact, “born …to” Filipino parents. Respondent’s natural-born Filipino citizenship was presumed from her “PROOF” of Philippine citizenship, i.e., her “OLD PHILIPPINE PASSPORT.”
Bold Caps mine.
In the 1987 Constitution natural-born citizens are those who are citizens of the Philippines from birth WITHOUT HAVING TO PERFORM ANY ACT to acquire or perfect their Philippine citizenship. (SEC. 2, ART. IV)
Question: If one says he/she is NBFC because based on OLD PHILIPPINE PASSPORT, what does it mean? Is this averment in accordance with Sec. 2 above quoted acceptable legally?
How did the OLD PHILIPPINE PASSPORT come about? No explanation given in her Verified Answer.
Under the 1935 Constitution, Sen. Poe’s being a foundling or having been adopted, her claim that she is a NBFC based on on OLD PHILIPPINE PASSPORT – DOES NOT fall also in any of the 4 or 5 provisions of Section 1 ARTICLE IV on Citizenship.
Poe then has to PROVE this FACT of her OLD PHILIPPINE PASSPORT acquisition if Mr. David as Petitioner, she claims, should prove her NBFC otherwise. She averred this ‘old passport’ fact as basis, then she has the burden of proof on it first.
Is there a copy annexed to the Verified Answer on this alleged OLD PHILPPINE PASSPORT? There is no further averments on it BTW on Par. 2.21.4.
Rene-Ipil says
[email protected] and CPMers
Poe LIED before US authorities when she declared in DS-4079 (Annex18) that she took her oath of allegiance with a foreign state on October 21, 2010.
Item 5b of DS-4079 asked “Have you taken an oath . . . of allegiance with a foreign state? If yes, please provide the date …. and country.”
Poe answered “Oct. 21, 2010, Philippines.”
That is a LIE. Annex 8 shows that Poe took her Oath of Allegiance (OA) to the Republic of the Philippines (RP) on July 7, 2006 before notary public Fernando Collantes in Manila. This was affirmed by BI in Annex 10.
So, what prompted Poe to lie before US authorities? Maybe she regarded her OA to RP as a trash because it was not properly accomplished or was NOT taken IAW RA 9225. Or maybe due to some tax consequences, etc., whether in US or RP or both.
This brings me to my theory that the OA purportedly taken by Poe on July 7, 2006 was defective and had NO legal effect.
The IRR of RA 9225 provides that the OA comprises the FINAL ACT that confers dual citizenship.
“Section11. Retention/ReacquisitionofPhilippineCitizenship,
“Subject to full compliance with these Rules, the Oath of Allegiance shall be the final act to retain/reacquire Philippine citizenship.
“In case the applicant is in the Philippines, he may take his Oath of Allegiance before the Commissioner of Immigration or any officer authorized under existing laws to administer oaths. In the latter case, the applicant shall submit the Oath of Allegiance to the BI to form part of his records.
“In case the applicant is abroad, only the Consul General or a duly commissioned foreign service officer of the Philippine Foreign Post concerned shall administer the Oath of Allegiance.”
Let us assume that Poe was a former NBFC. When Poe took her OA on July 7, 2006, did she reacquire her NBFC on same date. NO. Because she has not complied with RA 9225. In fact she had NOT filed yet her application for reacquisition of NBFC. Of course her application, which was filed on July 10, 2006 (Annex 7), had not been approved yet.
Needless to say, Poe’s Alien Certificate of Registration (ACR)/Immigrant Certificate of Residence (ICR) had not been cancelled yet. An Identification Certificate (ID) not been issued yet. And as a matter of course Poe could NOT legally perform yet the FINAL ACT, that is, an Oath of Allegiance to the Republic of the Philippines.
Did not Poe say before that all she needed to do was to renounce her US citizenship and take an oath of office before Philippine authorities to reacquire NBFC? Meaning that according to Poe, she had reacquired NBFC on October 21, 2010 when she took her oath of office before PNoy. And that she was qualified to become senator in 2013 insofar as citizenship and residency were concerned.
But the SC had ruled that the oath of office was NOT the OA contemplated by RA 9225. The said oath must be taken IAW RA 9225 and its IRR? Poe further assumed wrongly that she had complied with the residency requirement of ten years in 2013 for the position of P or VP because she had been inhabiting the country since 2005. Indeed, this aspect had been amply discussed in CPM.
My point is that Poe has not taken her Oath of Allegiance IAW RA 9225 up to the present. She has NOT reacquired NBFC and should vacate her senatorial seat ASAP.
kalakala says
What a REBEL ation POE! Maraming salamat po!
kalakala says
“Sa parating na umaga walang maiiwan” most of the people if not all around poe are corrupt. Good example the corrupted otcho 8 nakialabas na ang isa. Kaya ito kaya ang ibig nila poeng sabihin ay walang maiiwan sa loob ng detention center/cell. What if TOMORROW’S BUKANG LIWAYWAY WILL NEVER COME POE?
moonie says
it’s alarming that lying comes naturally to grace poe, lying must be in her blood. she was brought up well and good by da king and da queen kuno, attended the best of schools and guided by nuns and priests, lahat pala did not work. sayang pala ang trabaho nila, wasted on grace. kaya pala nagrebel, she’s more comfortable telling lies than truth. one lie leads to another, then another, and now her lies are catching up with her. blame the documents, they’ve been tampered with, that will be her excuse. more lies yet again.
Rasec3 says
Now I know how Poe and the Binays sleep…. They lie on one side turn around and lie on the other side … :D
Rasec3 says
Correction:: Lie down :)
raissa says
?
rasec3 says
???????? ???????? How can we teach the value of our already deminished nationalism to our youth? ?????????????????????????????????????????? How can we regain our lost pride in world stage when the enevitable comes that our first gentleman is a U.S. Citizen ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????? ??????
Rasec3 says
Sorry Mam Raissa and CPMers, It supposed to be lots of Philippine flags from my Phone, felt bad it came that way :(
Ancient Mariner says
@Rene
Is this the same Collante who is a partner in the Escudero law practice?
Ancient Mariner says
Oops! My mistake its Vallente not Callente.
Rene-Ipil says
Atty. Fernando T. Collantes became member of the BAR in 1962. He would be about 80 years old today, if still alive.
leona says
Rene-Ipil,
Can you CLARIFY ‘your point’ that Poe has not taken her OA IAW RA 9225 up to the present (your last paragraph), thus ‘She has NOT reacquired NBFC’,
by your saying ‘defective and had NO legal effect’? What are those SPECIFIC items in the RA 9225 and it’s IRR that was/were NOT COMPLIED by Poe?
‘Defective’ and ‘NO legal effect’ – seem not in accordance with your previous REPLY at #97.6.1. here, –
“Rene-Ipil says:
September 5, 2015 at 7:12 am
The affidavit of renunciation is valid IAW RA 9225, notwithstanding any foreign law. RA 9225 vis-a-vis foreign laws was amply discussed during congressional deliberation. Paraphrasing Cong. Locsin, he said “Problema na nila yun.” And the constitutionality of RA 9225 was upheld by the SC.”
Bold mine.
If you said ‘AR’ [affidavit of renunciation] is VALID, what then do you mean now Poe OA is ‘defective’ and with ‘NO legal effect’? Just for clarification . . . ‘Pre.
Thanks.
Rene-Ipil says
The OA is the final act or last step that enables the applicant to reacquire NBFC. Poe should have re-taken the OA after the approval of her petition because the affirmation by the BI of her OA taken before filing the petition was improper or not IAW the IRR. As I already said the OA should have conferred to Poe the NBFC on July 7, 2006 if taken IAW RA 9225.
Indeed, Poe averred in her Verified Answer:
” 4.90. Respondent re-acquired her “natural-born” Philippine citizenship when she took her Oath of Allegiance to the Republic of the Philippines on 7 July 2006. At that point, Respondent had become a dual-citizen.” (Page 84).
This is misleading. The earliest that Poe could be presumed a NBFC would be after she filed on July 10, 2006 her petition declaring under oath that she was born to Susan. This must be coupled with the submission of the Old Philippine Passport. And assuming that her declaration was true, her OPP valid, her petition approved and her OA taken also on July 10, 2006, Poe could have reacquired her NBFC on the same day. But not before July 10, 2006, specifically on July 7, 2006 when she took the OA.
The renunciation is valid IAW RA 9225 under the presumption that Poe has reacquired her NBFC. I believe that such renunciation would become invalid when Poe is proven not NBFC because it would render her stateless. Even the US authorities could not have relinquished her US citizenship under such condition.
raissa says
Pls clarify the dates july 7 and july 10, 2006. Why is it impt to mote these dates even though they are only three days apart?
also you said something abt being born to susan. Where did that come from?
Rene-Ipil says
Raissa,
As the FINAL ACT to reacquire NBFC, the OA must be administered on or after filing and approval of the petition. In Poe’s case the OA was administered three days BEFORE filing and 11 days BEFORE approval.
Following Poe’s argument, she reacquired NBFC 11 days before approval. So, if Poe took her OA earlier on May 9, 2006 she would have been a legal resident since that date and qualify to run as P or VP in 2016.
As to your other question, Poe stated under oath in her petition, Annex 7 of her Verified Answer, that she was born to Susan and FPJ on September 3, 1968 at Iloilo City.
Pickers1368 says
Under DOJ’S Memo Circular AFF-05-002 Revised rules Governing Philippine Citizenship under Republic Act (R.A) No. 9225 and Administrative Order (A.O.) No. 91, Series of 2004) http://www.philembassyberne.ch/files/revised_rules_memo.pdf
Sec 8 (Oath of Allegiance) appears to be one of the requirements that must be completed / satisfied prior to filing of the petition.
Thus, it says in the succeeding Section (Highlights mine) –
Section10. Compliance and approval procedures.
All petitions must strictly comply with the PRECEDING requirements prior to filing at the Office of the Commissioner or at nearest Philippine Foreign Post, as the case may be. After filing of the petition, it shall be assigned to an evaluating officer who shall evaluate the same without further proceedings.
Is it possible then that it was the BID thru the DOJ Memo on the Implementing Rules who was instructive on having the OA completed first before granting the petition, let alone before having it filed?
If that was the case, I don’t see how it could be the fault of Poe. The law was clear that the BID was the principal implementing arm of RA 9225 and was given all powers it needed to carry its mandate.
Rene-Ipil says
IMO the IRR approved by the SOJ does not authorize or give legal effect to OA administered before approval of the petition. MC No. 05-002 does not indicate WHEN the OA must be administered or sworn before the authorities. But MC No. 04-01 mandates that the petitioner must SIGN – not swear – and ATTACH the pro-forma OA with the petition.
“Sec. 9. Submission of the Oath of Allegiance – Applicants under these Rules shall also sign and attach an Oath of Allegiance to the Republic of the Philippines as follows:”
Both MCs provide that the OA is the FINAL ACT. Meaning that the previously signed and attached OA form must be administered or completed AFTER approval of the petition – NOT before approval and certainly NOT before filing – to put closure and finality to the reacquisition process.
It might not be the fault of Poe. But I think the said act of Poe as countenanced by BI without the approval of SOJ could NOT ripen into the proper OA and give legal effect to Poe’s reacquisition of NBFC.
Pickers1368 says
Still on the devil’s advocate, the July 18, 2006 order has the presumption of regularity. The SOJ can only review or potentially revoke on a clear showing of material misrepresentation (fraud or concealment being out of the question).
Material in a sense that the petition could not have possibly been granted, or if so it may be under some modified or qualified form, had the information been disclosed prior to the issue of the order. I think that either way, the petition would have been granted.
Poe is also not duty bound to disclose information that is considered public or for which the government ought to know or could reasonably access to.
Did Poe take the Oath or did she just sign the Affidavit of OA? The notary, witnessed and signed that Poe did swear.
Rene-Ipil says
There is no way that the OA could be effectively taken or administered until the application for reacquisition of NBFC is approved. The President of the Philippines ordered that the applicant SHALL (an expression of future tense) take the OA only IF the application is approved. And only after taking the OA that the applicant SHALL be deemed to have reacquired NBFC.
Administrative Order No. 91 issued by GMA on January 12, 2004 set the procedure, to wit:
“SEC. 3. Procedure – Any person desirous of retaining or reacquiring Filipino citizenship pursuant to R. A. No. 9225 shall file his/her application with the Bureau of Immigration if he/she is in the Philippines or the Philippine Foreign Service Posts if he/she is abroad. If his/her application is approved he/she shall take his/her oath of allegiance to the Republic of the Philippines, after which he/she shall deemed to have re-acquired or retained Philippine citizenship.”
http://www.gov.ph/2004/01/12/administrative-order-no-91-s-2004/
Mayongod says
Section 18 of the same DOJ circular got my attention.
…………..The Order of Approval issued under this Rules maybe revoked by DOJ upon substantive findings of fraud,misrepresentation or concealment on the part of applicant…
——————————————————
The citizenship of Grace Poe can be decided by DOJ who is under Liberal Party…depending whether she choose to be with LP or run independent?
Pickers1368 says
Yeah but that is already prejudice. We deal on facts and reasonable assumptions and critical thinking here at CPM.
leona says
So, there is then another possibility of a ‘mistake in good faith’ of her PLEADING – verified Answer, on ‘Par. No. 4.90’ – a misleading factual statement.
I assume such misleading statement cannot be subject of correction.
This misleading statement GOES A LONG WAY as an effect to the point (so to say) that it necessarily makes Poe’s acquisition of her NBFC status void for the fact that her AR [affidavit of renunciation] hinges on the invalidility of re-acquiring of her NBFC status.
This particular issue could be crucial at the SET tribunal – ‘To Vacate Or Not To Vacate’ her Senate seat ASAP (borrowing your phrase).
Thank You for the REPLY. Enjoy your weekend.
Mel says
Tough call @Rene, re “Poe LIED before US authorities … ”
I hope Raïssa would come an article in support of your call. And expand on it, or correct it, with @Yvone’s inputs and other CPMers.
Mel says
erratum
‘I hope Raïssa could write-up an article …’
Vhin AB says
@Rene:
Uso naman ang magsinungaling sa pulitiko kaya idagdag na lang sa listahan si Grace Poe. (Even Mirriam said, “I lied” and yet won a senate seat.)
Ang problema lamang ni Sen.Grace Llamanzares ay nasa SC na ang kaso niya at nagkakabuhul-buhol ang mga sunud-sunod na pangyayari.
Mahirap itago ang katotohanan dahil may records at dokumento na pinagbabasehan. Idagdag pa ang mga pahayag sa tv na ginawa.
Ang tanong:
Magkabuhul-buhol din kaya ang Korte Suprema sa kaso ni GP in relation to other cases na dinesisyunan na nila?
Abangan ang hatol.., sa TAMANG PANAHON.
baycas says
I always believed Grace Poe may be a champion for the PH foundlings’ cause of AUTOMATICALLY becoming natural-born Philippine citizens. I wanted her to run for higher office for this.
I challenged her opponents before to challenge her citizenship because there is still NO specific Philippine law that will grant natural-born status to PH foundlings by applying the “right of the soil” to them. We are, since the 1935 Constitution, a jus sanguinis (“right of blood”) country.
I sure hope that this ongoing Supreme Court route will help the foundlings Poe is perceived by some to be championing or Poe is trying to project she is championing.
Recently, as we already know, in her Verified Answer to the challenge on her citizenship, Poe was observed to declare:
Yes, foundlings have the right to a nationality but you must bestow them this right by “passing legislation” or “enacting statutes” (as Poe herself noted in her Verified Answer pp. 74 and 75). This is the international trend (“customary” and “conventional”) as Poe’s lawyers clearly, indubitably stated.
In fact, most ASEAN countries, save for a few including the Philippines which never created a legal provision for the foundlings, went for the required LEGAL REFORM in aid of children with unknown parentage.
Now, as a parallel path to the SUPREME COURT ROUTE petitioner David had undertaken and Poe is now facing, I again challenge the Philippine Government to go through the RATIFICATION ROUTE in order to help PH foundlings, like Poe (adult) and the hypothetical pediatric Baby Marciano, receive their Right to a Nationality…albeit retroactive in nature (like the CRC and the ICCPR).
Perhaps even Poe and her supporters, former CJ Panganiban and Harvard lawyer Tan included, will join in the clamor to immediately require the Philippine Government to once and for all accede to and ratify the 1961 U.N. Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness.
This will also hopefully signify that we are one on this…
For we are all HIGHLY SENSITIVE to the plight of all the foundlings found here in the Philippines.
baycas says
Dear Sen. Grace Poe,
Sa “Bagong Umaga” let’s be one in shouting for joy:
RA-TI-FY, RA-TI-FY, RA-TI-FY!!!
I pray Baby Marciano will be gratified…
leona says
A good important point you brought out baycas . . . Would the SET (or SC) pronounce a favorable ruling to POE by way of the ‘incorporation doctrine’ on treaties etc. on this matter?
Btw, the ‘incorporation doctrine’ comes from US Supreme Court decisions based on their Constitution’s provisions – a federal system of government, which we do not have. The closet or nearest we have about
this ‘incorporation doctrine’ is – “SECTION 2. The Philippines renounces war as an instrument of national policy, adopts the generally accepted principles of international law as part of the law of the land x x x” ART. II – 1987 Philippine Constitution,
but this provision is much different from US ‘incorporation doctrine’ applications based on their federalism system of government. On ‘treaties’ US Constitution provides differently –
“2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land. . .” ART. VI US Const. ‘Treaties’ are thus concurred/approved by their Senate without which any treaty is not binding on the US Gov’t including the Courts.
In the Philippine setting, what we have in our Constitution is – “adopts the generally accepted principles of international law as part of the law of the land” – adopting the generally accepted PRINCIPLES of International Law – as PART of the law of the land.
‘Principles’ . . . and not ‘treaties.’ A big difference. So, a ‘treaty’ must always be approved/concurred by our Senate as constitutionally provided. Can our SC ‘presume’ to adopt a ‘treaty’ under ‘Principles’ – meaning, in a given case? If yes, would it not be wrong and be attacked as a judicial legislation?
My opn.
Rene-Ipil says
I move for the immediate approval of HB No. 3404 which authorizes the Board of Commissioners of the BID “to act on application for recognition of Philippine citizenship of foundlings found in the Philippines.”
leona says
I agree below –
‘The Philippines is beset with serious problems and is lagging behind most of its Asian neighbors; the last thing it needs is another sweet faced know-nothing in Malacañang, who is out of her league and unable to come up with the right decisions to move the country forward.’
‘Our advise to Poe, stay in the senate for another decade and prove yourself first before aspiring for higher office. Why? Because at this stage, you’re not even fully qualified as a senator.’
I agree above and also below –
‘The woman is ambitious. We should all admire her for that. But as they say in politics, just because you can win does not mean you should (run for office).’
http://philnews.com/ Editorial today.
balayang says
She needs to be expelled from the senate but where will she go ?? Besides her fellow poewaya from the senate will miss her. WA quorum or wa konting accentless speakers in the senado, not a single ONE ☺
balayang says
Americans enunciate their speech with ‘ya kno-o-w-ow’. Pinoys with ‘nd op kurs es poesible’. I remember an Aussie boss of mine, she trying hard to sound Brit, called me a lassie and I trying hard not to double up, had to suppress a ‘woof, woof’. I thought a plain lass would have done, but then that’s just me. Better to sound just like Kris than in the senate. No difference there, they are
one and the same, except that Kris didn’t need to campaign for her spot, nor did she claim to be a foundling. Now, poenebre be dreaming of pulotgata ☺poe###ama !!!!
baycas says
Dear Sen. Grace Poe,
Sa “Bagong Umagang Parating” let’s be one in shouting for joy:
RA-TI-FY, RA-TI-FY, RA-TI-FY!!!
Walang maiiwan!!!
I pray Baby Marciano and other PH foundlings will be gratified…
Victinluz says
POE can never be PUT DOWN by the TAGA ROXAS — It BOOMERANGs everything on ROXAS .. He he.. The Foundling Issue and Residency — lalong maraming gumusto kay POE na maging P natin sa 2016. 2.) IGLESIA – mga PANDERING PANDERING ng mga TAGA ROXAS,,, NO EFFECT sa masang Filipino and very sure IGLESIA VOTEs will solidly GO TO POE 3.) si ROXAS natakbo sa mga reporters pag YOLANDA reliefs ang pinag uusapan … CONSULT MUNA sya daw kay MAMA JUDY o kay PNOY ,, naku ang dami na ngang problema si PNOY – ang liit na bagay consult PNOY pa ..he he… TALUNAN talaga…
diego says
pano kung taga Cubao o taga Boston o taga New York? ikaw siguro taga Olongapoe, ano? pwde ring taga Antipoelo? Taga Dipoelog? sirit na, taga saan ka ba talaga? lol
Victinluz says
Ha ha ako ang masasabi kulang ay @ hindi ako pakawala o paid endorser ni Poe…
diego says
and everyone else is a paid hack? huhuhu. i wasnt even insinuating you were a paid hack, i was just having fun with your TAGA tag lol.
however, you are much worse than a paid hack….you are a____. gaddammit! i dont even know how to describe what you are hahaha.
just a friendly reminder though: the elections are still a good eight months away. we’ve only just began the journey. nasa panahon pa lang tayo para kilatisin ang mga kandidato. panahon para kumbinsihin ang mga MAKA Roxas (yan po ang tama, hindi TAGA Roxas lol…yan po yung joke ko sa taas)…panahon para bulatlatin ang mga baho nina Binay, Roxas, at tantarantantantan: si Poe po. Opoe, open season din poe si Poe.
Ang hindi ko poe maintindihan ay bakit poe galit na galit poe kayo pag pinag-uusapan ang residency/citizenship issue ni Poe? Lehitimong mga isyu poe yan.
wag nyo poe muna sana isara ang pintuan nyo sa ibang kandidato (ok, maliban kay Binay lol). ako poe hindi pa poe desidido sa pagitan nina Roxas at ni Poe. mahaba pa poe ang byahe, sana poe bukas pa ang ating isipan sa ano pa mang mga kaganapan.
o sya poe, iiwanan ko kayo ng…kapayapaan :)
Halina’t sumayaw sa ilalim ng araw
Maghawak-hawak ng kamay
Isigaw nang sabay-sabay
Kapayapaan, kapayapaan.
Victinluz says
Paano naman ako galit HE HE … Masaya ako dahil bawat banat ninyo na mali mali kay POE on whatever , SHE was gaining so many MILEAGE …. Baka kayo dyan ang nagagalit pag binabanatan ko si MAMAS BOY ROXAS?
Vhin AB says
Actually yung mga Roxas na-immune na sa paulit-ulit na binabanggit mo. Pakonti ng pakonti ang nagrereact. Pero ang sa nakikita ko ay ang patuloy na topic ng residency at citizenship ni Grace Poe base sa records and laws na nahuhukay ng CPMers. Iyan ang nakikita na hindi mawawala hanggat walang desisyon ang Korte Suprema. Sana matapos na next month.
Victinluz says
Ayaw po kay ROXAS o kay KORINA tayo ” the GENUINESS of an EVIDENCE ” presented to the FILIPINO people to become our First Lady? O anong depensa [email protected] …NEW TOPIC ito…
Vhin AB says
New topic? Alin? Yung first lady o first American gentleman?
Salamat na rin but I think I’ll pass. Mas gusto ko yung topic na isinisiwalat ni @Yvonne at @Rene sa kaso ng residency at citizenship na nasa Korte Suprema. Yun ang inaabangan ko.
Victinluz says
Ok @VHIN abangan natin ha… Kung sinu ang tama sa atin …
Victinluz says
Agree @DIEGO ..he he i am here in a far flung place so i dont have the time and quality to researched on ROXAS and especially KORINA hmm Sanchez….But what i know a little COMPARING between the up coming 1st Gentleman VS KORINA the first lady NEVERMIND – kung magpapatabon si MAMA-JUDY ha he he,,,ay HINDI DAW ATA ” genuine diamond ” before MAR ….1st LADY of the PHIL… anong # hands sya – mabuti sana kung latulad nya si EVITA PERON ang LAYO naman nya..
diego says
wow! issues mo kontra kay Roxas: mama’s boy and Korina’s dirty little secret (what ever that is)?
nakakaloka ka ha! LOL
diego says
sori poe, pero hindi poe maitatago ng HE HE nyo poe ang matinding inis nyo poe sa mga posts laban kay madame Poe lol
Rasec3 says
I’m thanking @Parekoy reminding us not to put up with these trollilings,, nothing you can get from them but IQ dropped and BP shoot up,,,LOL,, I will not go to their world of pure imagination, but here is my bottom line,, assuming GP passed the citizenship issue( ??) one thing i cant stand is the possible US Cutezen as the 1st Ginoo,, ay ginoo,, paano sya kakampanya kay Gracia???? bawal ata yun as a US citizen.., ( Ibotow pow natin si Grace Poew.) I will take the mean-mean Korina kahit daw sya ay merong pang-tabloid na issue sabi ng mga trolillings. sa mga comments ng netizens/twitters/FB, Roxas City is the most positive… Roxas is confident….
Victinluz says
When you hit POE regarding husband LAMANZARES an AMERICAN CITIZEN 1st HUSBAND hindi trolling @RASEC ha…. Totoo kasi diba? Ay ngayon si KORINA to the FIRST LADY na so many HANDs , at TRUE din trolling pala…
Pag si POE na hindi NBFC sabi ninyo hindi TROLLING, ? Pag si ROXAS na selecting the RELIEFs DISTRIBUTION sa Yolanda victims na TOTOO din,, and even SAID ” remember the President was an AQUINO and you are a ROMUALDZ …na totoo din na sinabi nya sa LEYTE …TROLLING [email protected] ha he he….
Paullit ulit na bnabanggit ninyo ang citizenship issue against POE ay hindi TROLLING pag kinanti si ROXAS ninyo at si KORINA @ Rasec TROLLING pala …
MGA TAGA ROXAS — DESPERATE na ba KAYO na lahat na paninira ninyo kay POE, BINAY at MARCOS ay walang saysay DAHIL KULELAT ULI ang MANOK ninyo? MAHIRAP IBENTA ano……TRY. EDU MANZANO to be ROXAS VP , papatol iyan basta may DATUNG…he he
balayang says
‘president was an aquino’ ??? and here I am thinking that the prez IS an aquino; ano ba naman yan victin ??? nalulumpiya ka na ba ???
Victinluz says
He he @balayang …. Galing mo talaga ..mahina tayo sa enlish kasi ..pero ako walang nagbabayad sa akin na para kumampi kay POE …at kaya kung idepensa ang mga comments ko he he kung mali ang tenses sensya na @Balayang he he at leadt ako hindi UTUSAN ng TAGA ROXAS he he
Kalahari says
Grace asked: why become US citizen in the first place? / ANC
“Rizalito David, who is also Executive Director of Pro-Life Foundation, said the decision “says a lot about Poe as a leader.”
“There was a time in your life when you went to America and you changed your citizenship. You renounced your being a Filipino and now you are returning and you want to be a Filipino again because you want to run for President.” He told ABS-CBN News
“If you renounced your Filipino citizenship, it’s like losing your right to become president of the country.” (ABS-CBN 9/04/15)
parengtony says
Why only now?
Where in the constitution does it say that “If you renounced your Filipino citizenship, it’s like losing your right to become president of the country.”
It is becoming more obvious that anti-Poe interests are clutching at straws in their desperate effort to put her down.
Victinluz says
HE HE WOOING and COURTING POE kunu but at the SAME TIME ROXAS and HIS LPs were the one STABBING GRACE at the BACK…..he he …..TRAIDOR to the infinite power ang tawag sa mga taong ito..
CHIZ ESCUDERO — Hindi traitor kasi from the start ayaw nya kay ROXAS na maging VP….
Kalahari says
I presume that what Rizalito David meant was – after renouncing her Filipino citizenship once and became a yankee doodle of Uncle Sam, grace is now aspiring to be the P of the country after re-acquiring her NBFC not because she loves the country more but because she is leading in the surveys due to the magic of her surname.
She is a newbie in the senate and we don’t know if she’ll be corrupt in the future like her political backers/friends but one thing is sure – she won’t adhere to the Daang Matuwid of PNoy because the latter’s anointed one is likely to be her opponent next year, a man who won’t be tempted with dirty money because he has more material resources than grace and her political backers combined.
raissa says
Hi Kalahari,
there is a sweeping assumption i your statement – that the rich don’t steal. That is not our historical experience, however.
Kalahari says
You’re right, Raissa, that there’s historical experience that the rich also steal – to be more richer.
However, in the case of billionaire Mar, his records as cabinet members of erap, gma and PNoy have not been tainted with corruption of any kind whatsoever as he is seen to be preserving the good names of former president Manuel Roxas and his father, former senator Gerry Roxas.
I firmly believe that Mar is incorruptible and won’t be tempted to put his finger in a cookie jar